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Decorated B&W Bead
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Posted by: Lee Post Reply
09/26/2013, 01:55:39

A decorated black & white agate bead with zigzag/wave patterns purportedly from Burma.

Without the decorated plain bands flanking at both end that are normally found in beads with the same decorated patterns.

Many tiny red spots found on the black body and white patterns.

The length is approximating 4.8 cm

The diameter is approximating 1.3 cm

The polishing appeared more fines compared to other decorated black & white or carnelian beads with the same patterns I had in my collection.

Any comments, information or images for comparison are most appreciated.

Thank you.

Lee

DSC00819.JPG (137.8 KB)  DSC00820.JPG (136.3 KB)  


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Re: Decorated B&W Bead
Re: Decorated B&W Bead -- Lee Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Lee Post Reply
09/26/2013, 01:58:48

Additional images showing the perforations.

Thank you.

Lee

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Re: Decorated B&W Bead
Re: Decorated B&W Bead -- Lee Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Lee Post Reply
09/26/2013, 19:38:17

For comparison these decorated black & white and carnelian beads with same patterns but with the normal plain bands flanking at the ends. The average length of these 2 beads are approximating 2.6 cm.

Coming back to the original posted decorated black & white bead with length of approximating 4.8 cm.

Is it less common for this type of decorated patterns without the bands at the ends?

What causes the decorated white patterns to be spotty and gray color in some areas?

What is the educated guess whether this bead is old or new?

Any comments or information are most appreciated.

Thank you.

Lee

DSCN1897.JPG (105.1 KB)  DSCN1839.JPG (91.1 KB)  


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Nice beads, Lee! Do you feel they may all be contemporary?
Re: Decorated B&W Bead -- Lee Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick Post Reply
09/28/2013, 01:25:35

Frederick

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Re: Nice beads, Lee! Do you feel they may all be contemporary?
Re: Nice beads, Lee! Do you feel they may all be contemporary? -- Frederick Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Lee Post Reply
09/28/2013, 03:14:14

Hi Fred

Thank you for your comment.

Not contemporary especially for the 1 black & white and 1 carnelian beads measured 2.6 cm.

It is the other 1 black & white bead measured 4.8 cm in length that I am curious to find out more information.

IMHO I think this bead is old based on the polishing, drilled perforations from both sides and many tiny red spots on the body/white patterns.

But I cannot be certain because of the "length", without the usual "plain bands" at the ends, decorated white patterns appear like "spotty" and "gray colors" in some areas.

Any comments or information are most appreciated.

Have a nice weekend.

Lee



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its hard to tell from photo
Re: Re: Nice beads, Lee! Do you feel they may all be contemporary? -- Lee Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: tofsla Post Reply
09/28/2013, 10:51:04

main issue is - there are many old beads out of Asia with no patina and so shiny that they easy can be mistaken for fake, while they not fake at all.

Also there are plenty of beads out of Taiwan that are fakes but they have very well made patina, so they look very used, while in reality they are new...

I find personally most reliable way to look at how deep is etching and if there is no deep etching - i tend to consider beads as subject.

its becoming harder and harder to tell what is old and what is fake... so unless bead has very define weather and wear marks - it almost impossible to say anything with 100% confidence.

IMHO i will stay away from all 3 from above photos. They may be real may be not - but considering they are expensive beads - its better to be safe then sorry...

Sarva Mangalam



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love black and whites
Re: Decorated B&W Bead -- Lee Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: tofsla Post Reply
09/28/2013, 06:41:44

My today catch. Seller comes only on weekends and I show up before other buyers. Early Bird get the worm



Modified by tofsla at Sat, Sep 28, 2013, 06:52:26

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and more black and whites
Re: Decorated B&W Bead -- Lee Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: tofsla Post Reply
09/28/2013, 11:11:38

focal bead is very rare type of black and white and come from one of highly respected BCN member! (who has amazing collection of these type of beads)

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and one more of focal
Re: and more black and whites -- tofsla Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: tofsla Post Reply
09/28/2013, 11:29:43

this where you can clearly see that etching is very very deep and wide...

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Another comparison and thoughts...
Re: Decorated B&W Bead -- Lee Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: mosquitobay Post Reply
09/29/2013, 06:59:16

Hi Lee,

Just looking at the picture one would tend to believe that the bead is likely a Pyu-Tircul early etched bead.

It is very similar to some that I have, one with the stripes on the end and one without. The etching looks very good to me, I would say it is ancient at first glance.

What concerns me though is the large size. The only similar Pyu-Tircul beads I have seen are about half that size. The ones in my pictures below are about 6 x 16 mm in size.

Beautiful bead though. I would say that you must be certain of trust in your seller and consider the price.

Happy collecting,

Jan Skipper, Mosquitobay

bf301.jpg (23.5 KB)  


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quick question for Jan
Re: Another comparison and thoughts... -- mosquitobay Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: tofsla Post Reply
09/29/2013, 18:20:57

Jan,

I wonder do you have any idea, why many Pyu beads come in such shiny unused form? For example beads of Indo-Tibetan origin never look like they have this nice and new luster, and always have good weathering or wearing marks?


Thank for reply
Tofsla



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Re: quick question for Jan
Re: quick question for Jan -- tofsla Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Lee Post Reply
09/29/2013, 19:30:38

Tofsla, beautiful black & white beads and thank you for your comment.

It is getting more difficult to find black & white beads with net patterns in the country where I am based now.

Why some beads are in good or unused conditions? The finishing techniques may results from different ways of manufacturing, highly developed technical skills and can be qualified of superior quality production in accordance to french archaeological mission. Also some of these beads are for buried as grave goods only

Jan, thank you very much for your comment and also the images of black & white bead without plain bands at the ends for comparison.

Lee




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GREAT READ! Answer from Jan
Re: quick question for Jan -- tofsla Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: tofsla Post Reply
09/30/2013, 04:30:39

Hi Tofsla,

I have seen this in other bead types as well. I also have collected ancient glass beads for many years, and every now and then you will find a nearly perfect glass bead that still has the original sheen. I have spoken to archaeologists who say the same thing, so it is not just fakes mixed in with other older beads.

I also collect pre-Columbian beads and objects from the Western hemisphere, and you can often find ancient beads right out of a burial that are in unused condition.

I think a possible reason is that beads are made or perhaps acquired at the time of a death and used for ceremonial purposes, such as for burial with a family member or high ranked personage.

Another reason maybe that they were kept and not worn except for special occasions. I see many decorated spindle whorls that appear unused, even though weaving was commonplace in the culture. I would think that like your tuxedo, that is only worn from time to time, the most decorated or valuable objects are only worn from time and there fore keep their condition intact.

On the other hand, many Indo-Tibetan beads have been considered as amulets, and are often worn daily by their owners. This would of course create wear even on very hard stone. Some of the found dZi type beads may have been worn or held by multiple generations of owners throughout centuries even.

What do you think my friend,

Jan



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