Hello WenP,

Apple coral is typically straw-colored with blush areas that are reddish, and a "spongy" texture (it being a non-precious soft variety of coral).

Viewing your photo, I would have to guess the cylindrical beads are old plastic. Perhaps casein—though this is not easily determined from a photo.

Are the spherical beads harder than the plastic beads, or similar? They look something like a mineral, but do not look like any coral species I know. (Have you tried searches here? There are MANY posts that would help you recognize what it and is not coral.)

Be well. Jamey

Looks like Tiger coral...

Dear Highlander,

As discussed recently here, tiger coral is closely related to apple coral. Tiger coral lacks the reddish blush, but has darker veining that suggests the name. Tiger coral is not spotted nor spotty. Plus, it likewise has the "spongy" texture I discussed.

Nevertheless, thanks for your guess.

Jamey

Someone with a geology background said it reminded them of limestone.

Measuring the density is relatively easy. Hardness is an easy test too. Also, test for calcium with acid. If they have calcium, you can narrow the field: limestone, calcite, coral, marble, other, etc. Then you can speculate about the 'kind' of limestone, etc. What's the origin?

My observation wasn't a guess, the beads more resemble tiger coral then any other coral to my eyes is all. Your one comment Jamey, that they don't look like any variety of coral is what I was focusing on.

Of course they don't look like apple coral because 1) the lack of any red color or even yellow.

Some/most tiger coral beads will have dark veins and even black veins...but not all beads. Looks like there are tiny 'flecks' of black on some of the beads

If they are tiger coral beads - if - then the beads are highly polished and also coated with thick layer of lacquer is why there is no spongy surface.

Some of the tiger coral beads on this necklace (that Birdi owns) closely resemble the beads in question...I would defer all judgments on this to Jamey, if he says they aren't tiger coral I'd be more inclined to respect and acknowledge to his opinion - or until more was determined.

You saved me the trouble of finding the tiger coral beads I bought in the early 1980s—since Robin's beads are virtually identical to mine.

You write: "...the beads more resemble tiger coral then any other coral to my eyes...."

My point is that the beads are NOT coral.

"If they are tiger coral beads...[they] are highly polished and also coated with thick layer of lacquer is why there is no spongy surface."

Tiger coral does not take a "high polish"—which, in part, is why they are lacquered. However, the lacquer is transparent, and the spongy surface is quite visible.

Here are WenP's beads (left) and Robin's beads (right). While there is a certain similarity, they are far from identical. In particular, WenP's beads look like a mineral, or an imitation of a mineral. Robin's beads display the typical spongy visual texture of porous non-precious coral.

I cannot suggest what WenP's beads may be, if they are not either a mineral or an imitation of a mineral (such as glass or plastic). I think a hardness test might help. I expect that had I had them in front of me there would be no (or few) questions about their being coral. And I repeat, if they ARE coral, it is a variety with which I am not presently familiar—after having studied and collected coral since 1972. In any event, not any tiger coral, as I know that material.

Jamey

Seeing the way they are arranged on foxtail chain and that clasp-
I have very similar beads necklaces.
If you look at the end of each bead around the hole you will most likely notice that there the blotches are not evident, because they are dense lampworked glass created with a minimum of bubbles to resemble stone, perhaps jasper or limestone, the whole necklace is heavy also because of the chain.
At the Istanbul conf. in my talk about "realistic replicas and fascinating fakes" I showed examples with extremely similar beads with the same clasp almost certainly made and threaded in Czecho.
Unfortunately my presentation didnt make it into the printed volume.

Can you show an image of the end around the hole of any of the beads?

If they were stone its likely the holes would have been smaller if anything and the markings would continue all over.

I don't know why your entire paper was not included in the IBBC Proceedings--but I think it is a shame.

Do you agree that the cylindrical beads appear to be plastic?

Jamey

our quarterly Bead Soc of GB journal (formally "newsletter") is showing short extracts in the current issues, with images.
Most of it is not online but if you join, you get the newsletter, wherever you are in the world. See link:

Hi WenP, Jamey, Stef & all

My guess would be French glass beads combined with Galalithe (french spelling) cylinders (i.e. casein) on fox chain. Classic 1930's arrangement seen many times in different colours and art glass and Galalithe bead shapes. The necklace 'choker' length is 1930's. Louis Rousselet used this type of combination, but of course so did other french manufacturers of costume jewellery at the time.I can show various examples

WenP - can you show us a close-up of the clasp?

Cheers
Carole

These beads came from a collector's estate (20 yrs. ago) so there was no one to answer questions. One pic of the perf does look more like glass.

Hi WenP

Many thanks for that. Now I can tell you that it's definitely French and 1930's.

The association of the distinctive French clasp, French art glass beads, Galalithe (casein) beads and fox chain makes it unmistakably this.

Carole

It makes sense now. The beads are well done replicas of stone--had me fooled!

I was reminded today of this signed necklace of 'stone' beads...

Hiya Stefany, here's the designer's signed 'tag' - looks authentic for Les Bernard jewelry.

As a current collector of some their jewelry I've come to learn a little info...

Further research on the internet says Rousselet used clasps stamped "made in France". Upon closer inspection this necklace clasp is stamped "made in France", but it is not easy to read.

See prior photo of clasp.

I'm coming around to glass for the round beads made to look like stone. The cylinders are plastic. Thanks to all for your detective work.

From this pic - they don't look at all like Tiger coral beads. Lol! Great job to the forum members in on this one. Hats off...

The operative sentence below is: “ The brecciated marbles are composed of angular fragments....”

http://chestofbooks.com/reference/American-Cyclopaedia-7/Marble.html

"It is also of variegated colors, and sometimes is of brecciated structure, evidently made up of fragments of an older rock, the layers of which, broken up and confusedly rearranged, have been cemented together. Though thus varying greatly in color, texture, and structure, the composition of marble is for the most part essentially the same; it is a carbonate of lime, or a combined carbonate of lime and carbonate of magnesia, and is readily burned to quicklime.

The following are convenient divisions in which marbles may be arranged for a general notice of the most important of them: 1, the simple or single-colored marbles; 2, the variegated; 3, the brecciated; 4, the lumachella or fossiliferous. These sorts, however, pass into each other, so that some may be placed indifferently either in one or the other of two groups.

The marbles of this class found in the United States east of the Rocky mountains have not attained much celebrity, nor do we know of any worthy of it, unless we should include among them certain varieties of the brecciated marbles from northern Vermont and Tennessee. The gray and white clouded limestones of Thomaston, Me., are quarried to considerable extent for marble, and may be seen in common use in portions of the eastern states. They possess little beauty. California has furnished of this class some very showy marble of brilliant reddish and brownish colors, and susceptible of a high polish. It is imported into New York and used for mantels. 3. The brecciated marbles are composed of angular fragments, it may be of various mineral substances, united in a bed or paste of calcareous cement; or the mass may be so divided by numerous veins into pieces as to present the appearance of broken fragments irregularly united. Brocatellas are breccias, in which the fragments are very small; we incorrectly apply the name only to a reddish brecciated marble brought to this country from Spain. The varieties of this class are very numerous; but some of the most celebrated are never seen here, such as those called le grand deuil and le petit deuil, literally the full mourning and the half mourning.

These come from the Pyrenees and different parts of France; they are of a black ground spotted with white fragments. Among the brecciated marbles of the United States, the best known is that of the Potomac on the Maryland side, some miles below the Point of Rocks. The principal use that has been made of it was to furnish the columns in the old chamber of representatives at Washington. The irregularities of hardness in the different ingredients render it an expensive stone to work; still the quarries are deserving of more than government patronage. The stone is certainly handsomer than the Italian red and white breccia imported for the inner columns of the central arched entrance of the church before mentioned. Quarries have been opened in the northern part of Vermont, near Lake Champlain, which produce the most beautiful of the American colored marbles. They are brecciated, though they pass into the variegated. They present a great variety of colors, from a deep red, traversed with veins of white, to rose-tinted flesh color mottled with whitish spots. In some specimens the brecciated structure is very strongly marked, the fragments being large with sharp edges and of decided shades of dark red, drab, and salmon, upon a ground of white bordered with rose."

CLEARLY, the beads being discussed in this thread are NOT "brecciated" anything. The patterns are rounded, and look like melted glass. Further, the dispersion patterns within the pale glass, where the glass has tended to separate due to over-heating, is typical of many beads that imitate minerals. These beads are not "calcium."

JDA.

Add other details, like age, who made the necklace.

On a learning curve here!

"Hi WenP

Many thanks for that. Now I can tell you that it's definitely French and 1930's.

The association of the distinctive French clasp, French art glass beads, Galalithe (casein) beads and fox chain makes it unmistakably this.

Carole"

there would have been no discussion of rocks and minerals.

Huh?

another neologism from the "Lexicon of Revisionist Bead Research Terminology, revised 2nd edition".

and I'm laughing at you. If you could develop some logic and common sense, things might be different around here. Meanwhile, if you can't be logical, in the sense of basic common sense, why don't you just STFU!

The audience would have me STFU, but I think that's because your arrogant effete condescending attitude has them all intimidated.

What amazes me is why the audience doesn't chime in more often in opposition to the stupid S*** you say. A bunch of sheep, I suppose, who really don't care.

Any views on this exchange? Who's "condescending"?