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Francis Greil, Venetian bead manufacturer or distributor
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Posted by: barbiecampbellcole.com Post Reply
03/22/2022, 04:00:14

I'm trying to find out more about Venetian bead manufacturer or distributor FRANCIS GREIL who was in business in the second half of the 19th century in Venice. I'm aware of the Francis Greil bead sample boards held at the Peabody Museum in the US and the MAAS Museum in Australia and have been in touch with the curators. There's another Greil bead sample board on Pinterest. I'm also aware Peter Francis's brief mentions of Francis Greil.
Does anyone have more information on Greil? His nationality, if he was a bead manufacturer or merely a supplier, for how long he was in business, what bead markets he focused on?
There appears to be remarkably little information on Greil, even in Venice. Can anyone out there help?
Thank you!
Barbie Campbell Cole
UK



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Re: Francis Greil, Venetian bead manufacturer or distributor
Re: Francis Greil, Venetian bead manufacturer or distributor -- barbiecampbellcole.com Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: LaBoom Post Reply
04/02/2022, 11:45:41

Picards will likely know. I found this caption on one posting of beads from their site: PR-10
Venetian wound compound beads with a white core, referred as "cornaline d’Aleppo,"
also named white or yellow heart. This type of beads are seen on all cards: “beads traded for ivory” card and the Venetian bead book in the British Museum round ones from size 4 mm to 20 mm,
tubular from 6 x 10 mm to 22 x 13mm. Oval from 10 x 7 to 20 x 13. The disc-shaped ones are seen only on the Pitt River Museum card for central Africa, the Murano Museum,
the Standley cards and the Francis Greil card.



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Re: "Cornaline d'Aleppo" Beads
Re: Re: Francis Greil, Venetian bead manufacturer or distributor -- LaBoom Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
04/03/2022, 20:41:15

The Picard essay is mistaken on several counts—primarily because they mix small drawn overlay beads with larger wound overlay beads.

Venetians only refer to the small drawn beads with a white (or pale opaque) base, overlaid with translucent red, reddish, orange, or yellow glass as "corneline d'Aleppo" or "Aleppo" beads.

It has been a popular observation that larger wound beads are structurally similar, though made differently. But it has been a leap of faith (or just a mistake) to refer to both types by the same name. Reviewing Venetian sample cards, only the drawn beads are so-named.

The popular name "white-heart" for any small drawn overlay beads (be they red, reddish, orange, yellow, green, teal, or brown) that have white bases, seems to have been popularized by Native Americans and Indian hobbyists. Wound overlay beads are likewise not "white-heart" beads.

For the wound beads, these have been popularly called "Hudson's Bay beads" in North America, and "ox eye" beads in African regions colonized by the British. So these are regional user names.

Added to the above, small drawn opaque brick-red over translucent green or greenish bases, have likewise been mistakenly referred to as "older cornaline beads," and similar names. These (in Colonial French West Africa) were called "galet rouge" (meaning "red stone") and more recently "green-heart" beads.

All of this was included in an exposé I composed in the 1990s.

Here is a discussion from 2009: http://beadcollector.net/cgi-bin/anyboard.cgi?fvp=/openforum/&cmd=iYz&aK=63090&iZz=63090&gV=0&kQz=&aO=1&iWz=0

Some are slow to incorporate better information into their discussions.

JDA.


Related link: http://beadcollector.net/cgi-bin/anyboard.cgi?fvp=/openforum/&cmd=iYz&aK=63090&iZz=63090&gV=0&kQz=&aO=1&iWz=0

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White Hearts and Yellow Hearts
Re: Re: "Cornaline d'Aleppo" Beads -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
04/19/2022, 10:33:37

It seems the terms "white heart" and "yellow heart" have passed into common usage for both drawn and wound beads. Today, even the Venetians use these terms for both types since they are widely understood by the entire bead world. See for example the listings of the Venetian store Parapamiso.

When someone decides to dig into bead history, they will encounter other terms like “ox eye”, and appreciate their relevance. BCN is certainly a good place to start looking for information, and I hope it can remain a dynamic resource in the future. Also, I would encourage Jamey to post copies of his previous work on a site like ResearchGate or Academia. Accounts on those sites are free and the information will reach a global audience as well as (hopefully) be preserved for posterity.



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Re: "White-Hearts" and "Yellow-Hearts"
Re: White Hearts and Yellow Hearts -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
04/21/2022, 07:06:33

Some of my articles are already available at Academia and Research Gate—where I participate. I will submit more when they are formatted for that.

I correct misinformation where I find it. It doesn't matter to me whether it's a mistake from 100 years ago, or last week.

"It seems the terms 'white heart' and 'yellow heart' have passed into common usage for both drawn and wound beads."

To quote the immortal Bette Davis—"That's what I said Bub."

"When someone decides to dig into bead history, they will encounter other terms like 'ox eye', and appreciate their relevance."

Again, this is precisely what I have already done.

I produce for people who care about accuracy and history. If people don't care (and they don't have to!), they can bypass whatever challenges them.

P.S.—I provide corrections to my friends at Paropamiso fairly often.



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Re: Re: Francis Greil, Venetian bead manufacturer or distributor
Re: Re: Francis Greil, Venetian bead manufacturer or distributor -- LaBoom Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: barbiecampbellcole.com Post Reply
04/25/2022, 06:50:38

Many thanks but am interested in Francis Greil in particular, rather than the beads on the sample board. I have been in touch with the Picards.
Any suggestions?
Many thanks
Barbie Campbell Cole



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Re: Re: Re: Francis Greil, Venetian bead manufacturer or distributor
Re: Re: Re: Francis Greil, Venetian bead manufacturer or distributor -- barbiecampbellcole.com Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: petrusgeorgius Post Reply
04/25/2022, 09:30:31

Hello , it seems that Greil is a name specially located and used in the department of DORDOGNE , southwest of France . As it is my region , I keep it in my mind , if something will cross my way .



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