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what do you think about this necklace?
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Posted by: kika Post Reply
09/30/2015, 09:08:14

Hi all,
I bought this necklace on a market in 2003 In Cameroun. the dealer said to me that they were from Ghana, and Bodom, but I see Hebron beads, I think, and an islamic bead. I don't know if they are old, or modern bodom. There is also a big red bead, that I don't know.
What do you think about theses beads?
thanks at all!

DSC05800.jpg (80.1 KB)  DSC05801.jpg (80.2 KB)  
kika

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Both big red beads seem to be powder glass imitation coral
Re: what do you think about this necklace? -- kika Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
09/30/2015, 10:54:16

If you can see "grains" of glass when looking with a magnifying glass or microscope, they are also powder glass. A lot of imitation coral was made in this color using the powder glass method. I think they are at least 50 years old. All these beads look like they have been oiled - did they come that way?



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Re: Both big red beads seem to be powder glass imitation coral
Re: Both big red beads seem to be powder glass imitation coral -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: ShuD Post Reply
09/30/2015, 16:51:14

most ca. 1990s



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Re: Both big red beads seem to be powder glass imitation coral
Re: Both big red beads seem to be powder glass imitation coral -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: kika Post Reply
10/01/2015, 05:36:12

Hi Rosanna,
Thanks, without any doubt, there are glass powder and recent. Yes they have been oiled with shea butter, that I put, so that you saw better colors, the beads were mat.

kika

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Here is a strand of large powder glass coral (Nigeria) for comparison
Re: Re: Both big red beads seem to be powder glass imitation coral -- kika Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
10/02/2015, 09:49:54

Listed as made by the Yoruba, Nigeria. Asking price for beads like these is about $5 per bead, which is a bit high IMHO.

ExtraLargePowderGlassCoral.jpg (120.8 KB)  


Modified by Rosanna at Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 09:52:06

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Re: Both big red beads seem to be powder glass imitation coral
Re: Both big red beads seem to be powder glass imitation coral -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: kanana Post Reply
10/06/2015, 08:07:32



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Re: Both big red beads seem to be powder glass imitation coral
Re: Both big red beads seem to be powder glass imitation coral -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: kanana Post Reply
10/06/2015, 08:07:32



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Re: what do you think about this necklace?
Re: what do you think about this necklace? -- kika Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Stefany Post Reply
09/30/2015, 13:00:28

its important to indicate sizes- if the largest bead is not more than about 15mm long it could be japanese stained bone resembling coral! otherwise either powder glass or something else stained red, for example there are chunky clay beads with added colour that are seen on some Moroccan necklaces ...



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Re: Re: what do you think about this necklace?
Re: Re: what do you think about this necklace? -- Stefany Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: kika Post Reply
10/01/2015, 05:43:53

Thanks Stefany!
the size of the big red is 6,5cm x 4,3, and the another beads are between 3,1 x 2,2 and 2,7 x 1,7. The imitation of the coral is very unrefined. I think there were made in Africa, perhaps Ghana or another country.

kika

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Powder glass bicones are from late 1990s, if I recall correctly
Re: what do you think about this necklace? -- kika Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
09/30/2015, 14:44:58

Everything looks as if it was treated to a coat of grease...



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Re: Powder glass bicones are from late 1990s, if I recall correctly
Re: Powder glass bicones are from late 1990s, if I recall correctly -- beadiste Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: ShuD Post Reply
09/30/2015, 16:53:05

huh?



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You said it
Re: Re: Powder glass bicones are from late 1990s, if I recall correctly -- ShuD Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
09/30/2015, 19:26:24

mostly tow-part bicones and other dry-powder types made for a short while in the 1990s

In fact, if you are Kirk, I think I bought some from you



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Re: what do you think about this necklace?
Re: what do you think about this necklace? -- kika Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadstore.com Post Reply
09/30/2015, 15:03:18

Interesting amalgam of beads! My own take is that it looks like a mix of new powdered glass beads from Ghana and old Hebron-style beads that were then "aged" in some sort of grease. It is possible that these are mostly new beads made to look old?



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Re: what do you think about this necklace?
Re: what do you think about this necklace? -- kika Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: ShuD Post Reply
09/30/2015, 16:58:15

mostly tow-part bicones and other dry-powder types made for a short while in the 1990s. The two "corals"? -- who knows? What material? Typical shabby photos disguising simple truth!



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nothing bodom here, if you know the meaning of bodom
Re: what do you think about this necklace? -- kika Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: ShuD Post Reply
09/30/2015, 17:05:00



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The meaning of "Bodom" according to The Corning Museum of Glass:
Re: nothing bodom here, if you know the meaning of bodom -- ShuD Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
10/01/2015, 00:31:00



Modified by Frederick II at Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 15:36:17

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Re: Re: nothing bodom here, if you know the meaning of bodom
Re: The meaning of "Bodom" according to The Corning Museum of Glass: -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: kika Post Reply
10/01/2015, 06:00:25

Thanks for your answer!
I thought there are not true bodom, there are glass powder beads made in Africa. Where? I don't know, they come perhaps from the same country than the another glass powder beads that are from one color. I called them "modern Bodom", because they want maybe imitated bodom. But I do not know if they come from Ghana. But one of them is an islamic: that is often the surprise in these necklaces: the black one with white stripes near the big red bead!!. Once, I discovered a Morfia bead in a necklace with beads without any value!! it is the surprise of the researcher of beads in Africa!!!!

kika

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Re: what do you think about this necklace?
Re: what do you think about this necklace? -- kika Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: marinus274 Post Reply
10/01/2015, 11:25:46

Powder glass beads from Ghana imitating Bodom, King beads, Coral, Hebron, Amazonite, Amsterdam blue glas and even an early Islamic one.
But all imitations, on the local market 1 or 2 dollars maximal for the whole string.
Sorry!
Marinus



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Re: Re: what do you think about this necklace?
Re: Re: what do you think about this necklace? -- marinus274 Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: kika Post Reply
10/02/2015, 00:40:14

Thanks, Marinus. I thought that there were modern. But I did not see that the islamic was even an imitation. Yes, but you are right, all are wrong. I never believed that there were true, but I was intrigued by this necklace, because I went to the market to beads almost every day, and I had never seen this kind of necklace. Don't be sorry, I had no illusion, it was just of the curiosity!!!!

kika

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but they ARE true and there's nothing "wrong" here...
Re: Re: Re: what do you think about this necklace? -- kika Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: ShuD Post Reply
10/02/2015, 04:31:37



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One cruciform "Bodom" and two Akoso beads with Burmese amber:
Re: what do you think about this necklace? -- kika Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
10/02/2015, 00:30:38

1_Bodom.jpg (65.0 KB)  Bodom:2Akoso.jpg (54.8 KB)  


Modified by Frederick II at Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 04:01:44

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Re: One cruciform "Bodom" and two Akoso beads with Burmese amber:
Re: One cruciform "Bodom" and two Akoso beads with Burmese amber: -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: kika Post Reply
10/02/2015, 07:54:28

thanks Frederick,
I admit that I have liked never a lot bodom, thus I do not know them very well. Here are some beads. You can tell me if they are bodom?. I have a doubt also. I believe that akoso are more interesting. Here is a serie of pics of the samples that I have. What do you think about it?

DSC05807.jpg (85.9 KB)  1_DSC05808.jpg (80.2 KB)  
kika

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another "bodom"
Re: Re: One cruciform "Bodom" and two Akoso beads with Burmese amber: -- kika Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: kika Post Reply
10/02/2015, 07:56:39

DSC05809.jpg (85.4 KB)  DSC05810.jpg (84.2 KB)  
kika

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Re: another "bodom"
Re: another "bodom" -- kika Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: kika Post Reply
10/02/2015, 08:02:51

I forgot the size: 3,3cm x 2,9 for the first, the second: 3,6cm x 2,9 and the third, this one: 3,1 cm x 1,8. The last seems older, the glass seems very affected.

DSC05813.jpg (79.8 KB)  DSC05814.jpg (83.8 KB)  
kika

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Re: Re: another "bodom"
Re: Re: another "bodom" -- kika Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: kika Post Reply
10/02/2015, 08:11:49

and the serie of akoso. The bigger is 2,8 cm x 1,3 and the smaller 1,8 x 1,1.
For the second pic: there are biconic: the bigger is 1,4 x 2,1 and the smallest: 0,6 x 1,4

DSC05820.jpg (85.8 KB)  DSC05819.jpg (85.5 KB)  
kika

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Re: Re: Re: another "bodom"
Re: Re: Re: another "bodom" -- kika Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: kika Post Reply
10/02/2015, 08:16:38

the last: approximately : 1,3 x 0,9 and 1,2 x 0,8

DSC05821.jpg (87.4 KB)  
kika

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Bead in the middle - Venetian? Looks like a trail-decorated wound bead
Re: Re: Re: Re: another "bodom" -- kika Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
10/02/2015, 09:46:15



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I'm pretty sure the bead on the right end is a Venetian glass bead
Re: Re: Re: another "bodom" -- kika Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
10/02/2015, 09:45:07



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Examples of Venetian "tributes" to Akoso
Re: Re: Re: another "bodom" -- kika Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
10/02/2015, 10:02:59

These are found in various shades of yellow, and occasionally with aqua color added to the brown & black trailing. When the Venetian beads get well-worn, they sometimes are mistaken for their powder glass "cousins". I think the Venetians copied the traditional African designs, not vice-versa. But this is open to debate.

RFVenetianAkosu2Oct2015.jpg (54.9 KB)  


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Re: Examples of Venetian "tributes" to Akoso
Re: Examples of Venetian "tributes" to Akoso -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: kika Post Reply
10/02/2015, 15:01:19

Yes,I agree with you. the european did need to lure back the africans to trade with them, they made copies with designs that they knew and that represented a value. I have the same beads as those of your necklace, and I did note, at the level of the hole, that the glass was rolled up, they are obviously European, perhaps venetian.
These beads, here, are different: the glass powder is not european, I think so, and the glass around the hole is not rolled up, and it is wider, not regular. What do you think about the biconic too?: I have many venetian biconic and these are very different. I would think that they are african.

1_DSC05820.jpg (84.1 KB)  1_DSC05821.jpg (76.2 KB)  
kika

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I agree, the bi-cones you showed are powder glass, not Venetian
Re: Re: Examples of Venetian "tributes" to Akoso -- kika Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
10/02/2015, 19:03:42

For the specific beads in these pictures, I'm not sure since I'm not an expert in Akosu powder glass. These look to me like the decoration was added after the beads was made - could they be decorated with ceramic paint?



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Re: I agree, the bi-cones you showed are powder glass, not Venetian
Re: I agree, the bi-cones you showed are powder glass, not Venetian -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: kika Post Reply
10/03/2015, 06:40:54

thanks Rosanna,
No, the décoration was not added after the beads was made. absolutely not. There are not my favorite beads, I prefer the kiffa, for example!!! and many other!!!
And what do you think about the bigger beads that I sent above? they are not venetian, the powder glass is clear different, but are they bodom? the last seems older than the other.

kika

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I'm sorry but I don't know how to tell "Old Bodom" from new beads made in similar fashion
Re: Re: I agree, the bi-cones you showed are powder glass, not Venetian -- kika Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
10/03/2015, 10:10:17

Maybe others can chime in?



Modified by Rosanna at Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 10:11:02

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yes I agree with you,
Re: I'm sorry but I don't know how to tell "Old Bodom" from new beads made in similar fashion -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: kika Post Reply
10/03/2015, 13:26:02

Yes, Rosanna, I agree with you, I was not sure about these beads, that I found in Ivory Coast and Cameroun accidentally. Thanks for this interesting debate!

kika

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Re: what do you think about this necklace?
Re: what do you think about this necklace? -- kika Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: ShuD Post Reply
10/05/2015, 18:00:48

y'all don't know what "bodom" means.



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"Big Bead", I believe...educational reading/viewing
Re: Re: what do you think about this necklace? -- ShuD Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Joyce Post Reply
10/05/2015, 18:40:41

Good references are included in Picards' intro. All of the Picard exhibits are treasures for those interested in African Trade Beads.


Related link: Picard exhibit on Ghanaian beads
Modified by Joyce at Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 18:49:09

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And at the Picard Museum 2014
Re: "Big Bead", I believe...educational reading/viewing -- Joyce Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Joyce Post Reply
10/05/2015, 18:54:18



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BCN site search "bodom" since July 2007
Re: "Big Bead", I believe...educational reading/viewing -- Joyce Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Joyce Post Reply
10/05/2015, 19:02:17


Related link: BCN site search "bodom" since July 2007

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More Links
Re: what do you think about this necklace? -- kika Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
10/06/2015, 01:05:51

pdrgls_bd_discussions_05_07.jpg (125.3 KB)  

Related link: http://beadcollector.net/cgi-bin/anyboard.cgi?fvp=%2Fopenforum%2F&tK=bodom&wT=1&yVz=yTz&aO=1&hIz=4000&hJz=3000&cmd=find&by=&xcfgfs=tK-wT-yVz-aO-hKz

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Ditto - 2
Re: More Links -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
10/06/2015, 01:30:07

about_bodom.jpg (46.0 KB)  

Related link: http://beadcollector.net/cgi-bin/anyboard.cgi?fvp=%2Fopenforum%2F&tK=bodom&wT=1&yVz=yTz&aO=1&hIz=3000&hJz=2000&cmd=find&by=&xcfgfs=tK-wT-yVz-aO-hKz

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Boy, that was fun back then! :)
Re: More Links -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: TASART Post Reply
10/06/2015, 10:23:15



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I am impressed…and humbled.
Re: Boy, that was fun back then! :) -- TASART Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
10/06/2015, 11:27:49



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Re: More Links
Re: More Links -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: kika Post Reply
10/09/2015, 03:29:45

Thanks for this long debate, it was so instructive for me, and I did learn to appreciate Bodom. I understand now why bodom and akoso are so appreciate

kika

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Collectors often say:
Re: Re: More Links -- kika Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
10/09/2015, 04:26:53

Collectors often say: "I know what I like."

But actually: they like what they know about.



Modified by Frederick II at Fri, Oct 09, 2015, 04:27:39

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Yes, it's true
Re: Collectors often say: -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: kika Post Reply
10/09/2015, 06:14:37

kika

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