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Bead ID, please. Recently made?
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Posted by: dari Post Reply
01/26/2007, 06:05:35

Hello Everyone!
This is a large bead measuring appromimatley 21 mm in diameter.

Is this a recently made bead? What is it's origin?
See the photos showing two sides.

Best Regards,
Dari

what.jpg (32.3 KB)  


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From the Krobos in Ghana
Re: Bead ID, please. Recently made? -- dari Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
01/26/2007, 07:37:15

Hello Dari,

This appears to be a recent bead from Ghana, made by Krobos, and made from other glass beads, or pieces of beads, recycled into a new item. This is a relatively new sort of bead, related to the group I call "fragment-glass" beads. It is the closest Krobos have come to hot-working glass to make beads for 100 years (+ or -). The appearance of the finished bead varies a lot, depending on what sorts of beads are being recycled. Some Krobos call these "recycled glass."

Jamey



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Thanks once again, Jamey. I thought so!
Re: From the Krobos in Ghana -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: dari Post Reply
01/26/2007, 15:38:48



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P.S. Sources
Re: From the Krobos in Ghana -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
01/28/2007, 15:35:28

These beads are clearly made from pieces of the mysterious striped biconical rolled-pad beads—that I have suggested might be from India, but are included with other old trade beads from West Africa.

I haven't determined what the red-with-white-stripes glass is, but probably Venetian trade beads.

Jamey



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Other Similar Beads
Re: P.S. Sources -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
01/29/2007, 05:08:30

While looking through the Galleries, here, I noticed these two photos of similar beads—posted by someone a while back.

I am now wondering if the red-&-white stripe units might come from new beads from India (?).

I'm still undecided.

Jamey

afr.ven_16.jpg (41.4 KB)  twist_striped_pg.jpg (30.8 KB)  


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Re: Other Similar Beads
Re: Other Similar Beads -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: hans Post Reply
01/29/2007, 14:50:20

Hi all,
here are two similar krobo (fragment glass) beads and 2 modern (pinched?) beads from India which I think Jamey was looking for, hans

Krobo.jpg ( bytes)  India2.jpg (28.5 KB)  India1.jpg (29.4 KB)  


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Thanks Hans.
Re: Re: Other Similar Beads -- hans Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
01/30/2007, 00:12:57



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It was the striped pattern that interested me .. yes! Thank you!
Re: P.S. Sources -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: dari Post Reply
01/30/2007, 08:54:24



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Re: Bead ID, please. Recently made?
Re: Bead ID, please. Recently made? -- dari Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: red Post Reply
01/26/2007, 09:14:38

Is this another?

glassbeada.jpg ( bytes)  


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Re: Bead ID, please. Recently made?
Re: Re: Bead ID, please. Recently made? -- red Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: red Post Reply
01/26/2007, 09:17:46

view 2
the beads is approx the same size as Dari states.
Can't lay my hands on it to measure at the moment, It's in a box here smewhere!
Thanks
S

glassbeadab.jpg ( bytes)  


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Ditto.
Re: Re: Bead ID, please. Recently made? -- red Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
01/28/2007, 02:35:00



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Made from pieces of morfia beads (?).
Re: Re: Bead ID, please. Recently made? -- red Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
01/28/2007, 02:34:26



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Re: Made from pieces of morfia beads (?).
Re: Made from pieces of morfia beads (?). -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: red Post Reply
01/28/2007, 04:22:51

Thanks Jamey.
This one has been bugging me for a while.
Glad to have pinned it down at last.
Your help is uch appreciated as ever.
S



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Re: Made from pieces of morfia beads (?).don't think so!
Re: Re: Made from pieces of morfia beads (?). -- red Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: adjichristine Post Reply
01/28/2007, 14:06:52

I think these are simulated pieces of Morfias! Why? Its because pieces of Morfia are so highly valued by Mauritanian women that they are not sold cheaply! They would be far too expensive to be used in powder glass beads!



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Re: Morfia beads (?)
Re: Re: Made from pieces of morfia beads (?).don't think so! -- adjichristine Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
01/28/2007, 14:14:11

Hi Christine,

Your point is well taken.

I considered that these might be modern copies of morfia beads too, or even muracad beads (that themselves copy morfia).

However, please consider this. The beads we now popularly call "morfia," are not restricted to Mauritania (where they can be very costly). They also come out of Mali—and they can be transported from Egypt (where they were originally made) to West Africa by direct transport (as now happens more and more often, because of itinerant bead merchants from West Africa, who now spend considerable time in the Middle East).

The makings of these recycled beads do not have to come from Mauritania. Further, they are most likely fragments of beads, that would have less value than whole beads—regardless of their source.

Jamey



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Re: Morfia beads (?) Mali!
Re: Re: Morfia beads (?) -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: adjichristine Post Reply
01/29/2007, 00:25:32

Hi Jamey, Your comment was very interesting! Most people do not know that most of the Morfia beads that are found in Mali actually come from Mauritania!!! Traders from Mali buy them from Mauritanians! People who buy Morfias in Mali, just assume that they were found in Mali! In the eight years that I spent travaling throughout Mali, I never saw one Morfia that did not come from Mauritania! In fact, the best Kiffa strands that were ever proposed to me, were proposed to me in Bamako! Of course, they were purchased in Mauritania and brought to Mali to be re-sold!
I was also very intrigued by your comment about other places that Morfias could be found. Its logical that they could be found in the place that they originate!One thing that is obvious, these beads are becoming more and more rare. I called Mauritania last week to inquire about the possibility of buying some. The answer I was given was, "Madame Christine, Morfias are finished!"



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Re: Mali
Re: Re: Morfia beads (?) Mali! -- adjichristine Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
01/29/2007, 03:50:50

Hi Christine,

I am surprised by this comment.

I believe that "morfia" beads are actually found in Mali—just as they are recovered in Mauritania. But it would not surprise me if these (and any beads) cross borders from one country to another, and in either direction. "Morfia" are Medieval beads (or Islamic Period beads), and might be found anywhere that such beads have been buried or kept for a long time. Don't you imagine that they are recovered in the desert, from places where they were secreted and buried—and that this happens in many places in Africa (?)—and that it happened a lot in West Africa, because these are the places where Islamic merchants went 1000 years ago—to the old great Kingdoms and cities of great renown. This is why old beads are recovered at Niger River sites in Mali (like Jenne, Gao, and Timbuktu).

I have to wonder, if morfia are so valuable in Mauritania, how can they be sold for less money out of Mali? (Yes, it does happen—and this is why I think it's just as likely that morfia beads from Mali travel to Mauritania, where a better profit can be realized.

It is fairly well demonstrated that morfia and dar vakron beads originated in Egypt, and specifically from the Fustat glass industry. (Not to say similar beads weren't also made elsewhere in the Middle East at the same time, more or less.) They were exported as far East as Afghanistan, and as far North-by-West as Scandinavia. And Afghanistan is still a source of these beads, as I have documented many times. These days, I'll bet it goes like this: beads from Afghanistan go to the Arabian Peninsula, where they are acquired by Africans who are there to do the Haj. The Africans take the beads back to Mali (or wherever). Then "Afghan 'morfia'" become part of the corpus of "African" beads. It would not be limited to morfia, of course. But Africans would probably first select beads they recognize and know will be desirable back home. Then, they also bring stuff that is exotic and interesting. (This is why we now see Middle Eastern beads coming out of Africa, that were never seen from Africa over the past thirty-something years that African beads have been coming to us.)

Mauritanian morfias are probably not "finished." There may be a slump. But eventually, the desert dwellers will find more. Or people will bring in more. Ten years ago, a certain German collector I know intended to travel to Pakistan (where the majority of Afghan beads were being marketed then), specifically to buy beads to sell in Mauritania, and specifically morfia and fakron beads. I don't think this could possibly have been a new idea. It was not conceptually new to me—so I didn't think it was a stretch.

Over the past five years, I have noticed a lot of Afghan beads suddenly coming out of West Africa. Stone beads particularly. Lately, Africans we know are bringing Yemeni coral and silver necklaces out of Arabia, to become part of their inventories. I understand some of these coral beads are now sold to Tibetans (to replace old beads that were looted or sold a long time ago).

Bead do move around a lot. And Africans move a lot of beads.

Jamey



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Morfia
Re: Re: Morfia beads (?) Mali! -- adjichristine Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: wantke uwe Post Reply
01/29/2007, 06:54:53

I took this picture in Morocco, 3 or 4 years ago, from a trader, I usually buy Venetian beads from. I don´t have any knowledge about „Morfias“, except what I have learned here, but my guess would be, that some of these beads will be those Morfias.
The price he asked for was far off my possibilities and I am sure, he will still have them. He reasoned that high price with that now wellknown „story“(I have heard from other Moroccans as well...), that some Mauritanian families are paying nearly every price and that Morfias in Mauritania are cutted into tiny pieces, because the sum of those pieces bring in more money, than a complete Morfia.
I know, that my traderfriend and his father are traveling to Mauritania 3 or 4-time a year for business, so there is a simple question: Why don´t they sell the beads there?? I don´t understand...
Please don´t understand this wrong, but wouldn´t it be a good rumor, to keep the prices high....?!

I will ask Abdelhak this question next time. I hope, after all these years he will not be brusque...

morf.jpg (38.0 KB)  


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Re: Morfia , trying to undrstand your point!
Re: Morfia -- wantke uwe Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: adjichristine Post Reply
01/29/2007, 11:43:35

Moroccans are some of the best buyers of beads in Mali, Senegal, Mauritania!!!!! Most probably the beads in the picture were indeed purchased in one of these countries! You seem to be in doubt about the fact that Mauritanian women purchase pieces of Morfias at top prices!Its true! I've seen this with my own eyes!!!Not only that, they will break up a bead to share with other family members! What do they do with the bead fragments????? They set them in gold like precious stones! It is a prestigeous thing to own a set of gold jewelery with Morfia pieces. Look at the pictures below. The stones are Morfia and ancient carnalian fragments! This is a must-have for the well-to-do Mauritanian! if, I told you the price, you would not believe me!
Your question, why don't Morrocans sell their beads to Maure women really surprised me! Mauritanian women don't have anything to do with a man that is not a male relative!! I would be surprised that one would even consider sitting down to talk business with a male stranger!

2_DSC00040.JPG (60.8 KB)  DSC00053.JPG (61.7 KB)  5_DSC00049.JPG (59.5 KB)  


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WOW....many thanks...!!!
Re: Re: Morfia , trying to undrstand your point! -- adjichristine Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: wantke uwe Post Reply
01/30/2007, 05:43:02

Hi Christine, many thanks for that beautiful pictures of Mauritanian jewelry. I have never seen before these kind of necklaces and the work with gold and pieces of glass and stone. I always enjoy your pictures of Mauritanian life and will wait, to see more of it...Thanks again and again...!!!



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Yes, these are morfia and fakron.
Re: Morfia -- wantke uwe Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
01/29/2007, 14:23:42



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Re: A similar one?
Re: Re: Bead ID, please. Recently made? -- red Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: nishedha Post Reply
01/30/2007, 19:48:17

I posted this one already a long time ago: it is 16,8 x 12 mm. and feels like made of plastic.

1_bead1.jpg (117.6 KB)  bead4.jpg ( bytes)  


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Update
Re: Bead ID, please. Recently made? -- dari Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
02/11/2007, 13:59:07

Hi Dari,

This past week at the Tucson show, I saw new Indian versions of the old spiraled rolled-pad beads (that are black with red and white stripes).

Consequently, I am reasonably sure the bead(s) you ask about are composed entirely from new beads from India. This is sensible, because there would be fewer chances for incompatibility to occur.

Cheers, Jamey



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