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Warring states?
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Posted by: Floorkasp Post Reply
04/06/2014, 03:46:15

At the moment I am in Beijing, part of a long trip through Asia. Went to the big antiques market here, Panjiayuan. It is know for it's fakes, and for lots of beads used for religious purposes. Jade, turquoise, agates, Zi beads, more than you ever seen together.
Struggling with posting pictures, as I did not bring my laptop.
Here is one I wanted to show you though. Between the many many fakes, I saw this beads, which to me looks like a genuine Warring States Period bead. Any thoughts on it? Did not buy it, but I am tempted..... It was translucent bright blue, and it had one or two eyes missing. The hole was big, and parts of the dots appear to have the typical decay.
Sorry about the fingers in the picture.....

88_image.jpg (80.2 KB)  


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Weird and wonderful
Re: Warring states? -- Floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Floorkasp Post Reply
04/06/2014, 04:21:22

Also saw several sellers with these beads, mostly made into bracelets, necklaces and malas. I also bought some. I know I have two of these at home, bought in West China, but never found out what they were. They all appear to be pebbles, naturally polished. The ones I found most interesting were the ones that have an exterior like orange peel, white translucent, but have another color inside that shines through. There were other varieties with natural 'eyes', or black and red.
I think they are a chalcedony stone.
Any thoughts on these, and what makes them popular in China?

Hope to meet up with Red Mountain later on in my trip. I guess he'd know some of this stuff.....

89_image.jpg (157.5 KB)  89_image.jpg (157.5 KB)  


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Second picture
Re: Weird and wonderful -- Floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Floorkasp Post Reply
04/06/2014, 04:25:39

90_image.jpg (175.3 KB)  


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Re: Warring states?
Re: Warring states? -- Floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Joyce Post Reply
04/06/2014, 12:37:39

I am not confident with these bead types, Floor, but it looks good to me!
Happy and safe travels!



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Similar...
Re: Re: Warring states? -- Joyce Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Joyce Post Reply
04/07/2014, 06:07:30

I was reminded of these with Bassem in Tucson, 2013...

1_beancienteyes.jpg (69.7 KB)  


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Re: Warring states?
Re: Warring states? -- Floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: sisterray Post Reply
04/06/2014, 14:54:21

Looks like an authentic warring states period bead to me. I mean, if it should happen to turn out to be a fake, then the world of fake ancient beads has gotten entirely too scary for me. Enjoy the rest of your trip!
Rachel



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Please don't shoot the messenger, but...
Re: Re: Warring states? -- sisterray Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick Post Reply
04/06/2014, 19:12:51

Hi Rachel and Floor,

I'm sure I've spent at least ninety days shopping for antique and ancient beads in China. And I bought a number of these. And I trusted that they were probably Warring States, or at least antique copies. However, my doubts have increased for a number of reasons...

Years ago at Bead Expo in Santa Fe, a prominent Chinese magazine publisher and expert said "The large number of beads like these -which I had been pouring over in a well respected dealer's booth- were fake." I've never regretted walking away from these and this type.

Whenever looking at Chinese "antiques," it is advised to be suspicious from the beginning. But buying the piece provides good study material for comparison; this is the tuition you must pay in order to begin looking for clues. Notice the even patination and "calcification" in the gunky whitish areas.

Even the famous Summerfield Warring States horned eye bead has come into question. Sleuthing is part of the fun.

Good luck in China,

Frederick

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Thanks!
Re: Please don't shoot the messenger, but... -- Frederick Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Floorkasp Post Reply
04/07/2014, 04:07:39

It is tricky to get into a new type of beads, as you are less likely to get it right the first time. The signs on this one were good, when it comes to context. This dealer had no (very) obvious fakes, and some other interesting genuine beads that I do recognize. Some Venetian millefioris, some Islamic eye beads and a genuine 7 layer chevron bead.

There are many obvious fake Warring States beads to be found on this market, and this was the only one of this type I could see.

I am off to Shanghai at the end of the week, where the glass museum has an exhibit on the Warring State beads, aka dragonfly eye beads. Perhaps after that exhibit, I will know more. Also, in Tucson, I was able to touch and inspect up close Bassem's Warring States beads, which is a good way to get to know them.

I know it's kinda not done on here, but if there is anyone who could give me somewhat of a pricerange for a bead like this, I would appreciate it. There are a few Warring States for sale, but they are all (I think) the other type with some type of faience or ceramic?

Any one who knows more about the pebble type stone beads?



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Re: Thanks!
Re: Thanks! -- Floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: bonpo Post Reply
04/07/2014, 10:07:28

I never thought Chinese where in to trade beads..

is it getting to be known in China too??



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LOVE that market
Re: Warring states? -- Floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Barbara Post Reply
04/07/2014, 05:09:44

My husband had a six-week job In Beijing about eight years ago, and I went every weekend to Panjiayuan. It is fantastic!
I went for new stone and glass beads.
The so-called ancient beads were available in such quantities with some strands looking so new that I was very wary.
But what a shopping experience!
Hope you enjoy every moment, Floor.



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Until the 2008 Olympics, Beijing was a wonderful place to shop.
Re: LOVE that market -- Barbara Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick Post Reply
04/07/2014, 05:39:36

Frederick

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Previous post on the Panjiayuan market
Re: Warring states? -- Floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Floorkasp Post Reply
04/07/2014, 05:37:44

For those who may have missed it, here is a link to a previous post I did on the Panjiayuan market. I will post more pictures from this year, but it may take a while.


Related link: Panjiayuan on BCN

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Re: Warring states?
Re: Warring states? -- Floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: mparis Post Reply
04/07/2014, 12:42:24

Nice to have some news from you Floor!!



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Re: Warring states?---Some of my thoughts...
Re: Warring states? -- Floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: mosquitobay Post Reply
04/07/2014, 14:14:57

This type of bead has always been a bit of an enigma to me. I purchased several of them many years ago during the construction of the Three Gorges Dam, a time when many ancient items from China were slipping out of the country. Unfortunately it was also a great time for the selling of fake beads. Believe me the Chinese artists (at least some of them) are incredible at making the new look old.

The ones I bought came from an impeccable source in Hong Kong, that is the only reason that I bought them. I believe that this particular type, the kind where the white portion of the decoration appears to "fall out" while the remaining blue elements remain, are at least to some extent authentic. Are there fakes out there that look similar? It would not surprise me. Are they definitely Warring States period, that I cannot be entirely sure of, but I do believe mine at least were ancient Chinese glass beads and likely Warring States. If you write me directly, I will be willing to discuss prices and values.

Jan

see some examples below:

bf325a.jpg (40.0 KB)  bf325.jpg (58.2 KB)  


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