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Posted by: shinji Post Reply
11/13/2013, 23:12:12

I started to open a part of our collection little by little in our FB-page(follow the link below).
If you are interested in ,visit our FB-page and leave messages.

The picture is a strand of ancient glass beads found in Indonesia.

Just follow the link below.
SHINJI

eyebeads0.jpg (128.1 KB)  

Related link: http://www.facebook.com/pandamo.net
Modified by shinji at Wed, Nov 20, 2013, 20:09:37

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An ancient turtle found in Burma
Re: If you like,visit our FB-page -- shinji Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: shinji Post Reply
11/17/2013, 01:18:12

DSC_00012013-11-17_18-30-56.JPG (95.9 KB)  DSC_00022013-11-17_18-31-31.JPG (99.6 KB)  


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Very cool!
Re: An ancient turtle found in Burma -- shinji Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadbox Post Reply
11/17/2013, 07:00:01

Is this a recycled bead? I see what looks to be similar patterns in Jatim beads.

Thanks for posting.

-Matt



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Re: Very cool!
Re: Very cool! -- beadbox Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: shinji Post Reply
11/17/2013, 18:52:06

At least nothing has been done for this bead after excavation as a result of checking in detail.

And I can say that this one was not made by simple carving from ball shape bead,because of it's mosaic conditions around head or hands or legs.
And the shape suggests it also.

I'm not sure it's possibble to make this from ball shape bead.
If it's posibble I think you have to use "hot technique" at least.

It is also posible that This was made as turtle shape bead from the begining by useing making mosaic beads technique.

And I can't deny the posibility this one was made in Java in the same period so-called "Pyu/Tircul" in Burma.
But green eye mosaic on this bead is better quality than normal Jatim beads and difficult to find this kind of green eye mosaic in Jatim beads.

SHINJI

DSC_00012013-11-18_12-25-31.JPG (86.8 KB)  DSC_00022013-11-18_12-27-38.JPG (87.6 KB)  


Modified by shinji at Sun, Nov 17, 2013, 19:14:11

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Interesting!
Re: Re: Very cool! -- shinji Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: floorkasp Post Reply
11/18/2013, 08:04:29

I am wondering if it may be made from a bead broken in half. Would be a great way to preserve it. Imagine the bead was broken in half, and then cold worked, and drilled. The size of the hole is inconsistent with the size of the holes of the round beads made with this technique and in this period. When you look at the hole, it goes straight through the mosaic, instead of the mosaic being plces around it, which would have been done in a hot technique on a mandrel. Also, the neck of the turtle shows the inner layer of the bead, which has no mosaic on it. To me, it looks like it was ground down to make the indentation.

Either way: very cool.



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Re: Interesting!
Re: Interesting! -- floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Shinji Post Reply
11/18/2013, 14:11:13

Hi floorkasp

Thank you for your comment.
At first I was thinking the bead was a kind of Jatim in half, and then cold worked, and drilled.
It's the most natural way to think about this bead.
I think everybody think so at first.

And I agree the hole of this bead is drilled .
And there is the trace of original hole on it's belly in fact.
(I didn't open it because I wanted to let you think without preconception.)

But the mosaic layer of this kind of bead is very thin normally.
The fact made me to think "cold work" can't make this bead.

If it had very thick mosaic layer, you may be able to make it by carving.
But if it has thin mosaic layer like Jatim, you can't make it only by carving, I think inner layer comes to appear more and more around arms and legs and back like it's neck you pointed.

I have not reached clear idea yet.
And anyway I'm sure any works(cold or hot) had been done in ancient time.

SHINJI





Modified by Shinji at Mon, Nov 18, 2013, 15:09:28

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Hi Shinji~ FB-page, good... & your turtle..I like!
Re: If you like,visit our FB-page -- shinji Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Jake@nomaddesign Post Reply
11/18/2013, 19:04:44



Modified by Jake@nomaddesign at Mon, Nov 18, 2013, 19:07:42

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Thank you Jake,I try to upload everyday for a while,so come to check sometimes,
Re: Hi Shinji~ FB-page, good... & your turtle..I like! -- Jake@nomaddesign Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Shinji Post Reply
11/19/2013, 07:16:39



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LOVELY!
Re: If you like,visit our FB-page -- shinji Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: tofsla Post Reply
11/19/2013, 07:45:07

some amazing Edo ojime!! Museum quality! wow



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Thank you! Today, will upload broken chun dzi... (I know you don't like it.)
Re: LOVELY! -- tofsla Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: shinji Post Reply
11/20/2013, 20:12:08


Related link: http://www.facebook.com/pandamo.net

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i like bodhi seeds beads very much. they become very very rare... small size is very hard to find!!!
Re: Thank you! Today, will upload broken chun dzi... (I know you don't like it.) -- shinji Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: tofsla Post Reply
11/21/2013, 04:32:44

but yes - broken beads leave me cold. its true. Tibetan believe that when gzi/chunggzi broke - its got broken protecting owner from bad Karma, so it s been used/spend and should be discarded...



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Thank you tofsla! I understand what you mean.
Re: i like bodhi seeds beads very much. they become very very rare... small size is very hard to find!!! -- tofsla Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Shinji Post Reply
11/21/2013, 08:09:48



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Re: Shinji's turtle and Islamic eyes
Re: If you like,visit our FB-page -- shinji Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Will Post Reply
11/20/2013, 15:02:13

Hi Shinji, hi everyone,

It's great to come back to the forum and find such a fascinating and unique bead.

Really, polychrome glass animal-shaped beads are very, very rare in early South-east Asia (or anywhere else). I agree that this one seems to have been reworked from a broken bead, but while this kind of recycling is frequent in Africa it's much less common in SE Asia. The original could have been a Jatim, though this arrangement of green, yellow, red, white, blue is very unusual in Jatim canes. Green-yellow-red is common, and red-white-blue is also, but not the five together. (Not impossible, of course, because that's a really nice and rare Jatim with the same colours that you show along with the two turtles).

However, these colours are found much more frequently in West Asian "Islamic" and probably Byzantine eye beads (there are several in Panini's book on Middle Eastern and Venetian Glass beads). Quite a lot of fragments of Islamic beads and canes have been found on the west coast of southern Thailand and Malaysia, and I would bet that there are other sites in southern Burma that haven't even been found yet. It could be that a broken bead was reworked in that area, or indeed that local beadmakers made it there. That seems more likely to me than southeast Java. But really, beads moved around so much in the ancient world that just about anything is possible.

Shinji, I really like you facebook site (and wish I didn't have to go into facebook to see it!). There are some wonderful beads there, and I love the ceramics too.

Cheers,

Will



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I don't do facebook
Re: Re: Shinji's turtle and Islamic eyes -- Will Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lopacki Post Reply
11/20/2013, 16:19:56

and some people think I am crazy, never have been in any social network from the start and do not feel left out except in times like these.

I am hoping that Shinji has a website with images.

All my best ..... Danny



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You don't need to do facebook (no need acount to see my page)
Re: I don't do facebook -- lopacki Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: shinji Post Reply
11/20/2013, 20:05:44

Hi Danny

You don't need to do facebook to see my page.
Just follow the link below.
I think you can see them.


Related link: http://www.facebook.com/pandamo.net
Modified by shinji at Wed, Nov 20, 2013, 20:07:27

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Thank you
Re: You don't need to do facebook (no need acount to see my page) -- shinji Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lopacki Post Reply
11/21/2013, 08:46:18

When I first went to your page I was asked to sign in or join facebook. I did not realize I just had to click on your photo link to get to look, I will have a good look later today as a quick look made me more that interested.

All my best ......... Danny



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Re: Re: Shinji's turtle and Islamic eyes
Re: Re: Shinji's turtle and Islamic eyes -- Will Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: shinji Post Reply
11/20/2013, 20:54:50

Hi Will

Thank you for your comment.

I'm more positive about the idea that original bead is from ""West Asian "Islamic" and probably Byzantine eye beads"" than Jatim.

The diameter is approximately 21mm.
The size is smaller than normal Jatim.
And it's each mosaics are also small and fine detaile more than Jatim.

The long bead with same kind of mosaic was found in east Java but I believe it's from outside of Java.

I think the quality of mosaics of turtle are more close to mosaics of the long bead below than Jatim I posted before.

DSC_00092013-11-21_14-21-13.JPG (88.0 KB)  DSC_00092013-11-21_14-21-13.JPG (88.0 KB)  

Related link: http://www.facebook.com/pandamo.net
Modified by shinji at Wed, Nov 20, 2013, 21:08:47

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This is easy way to access for evrybody.
Re: If you like,visit our FB-page -- shinji Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: shinji Post Reply
11/20/2013, 20:57:01

just follow the link below.


Related link: http://www.facebook.com/pandamo.net

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It's a great facebook, Shinji! Great collection and photos!
Re: This is easy way to access for evrybody. -- shinji Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Joyce Post Reply
11/21/2013, 06:06:30



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Re: It's a great facebook, Shinji! Great collection and photos! -- Joyce Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Shinji Post Reply
11/21/2013, 07:55:01



Modified by Shinji at Thu, Nov 21, 2013, 08:04:24

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Thank you Joyce! I have just started to open.
Re: It's a great facebook, Shinji! Great collection and photos! -- Joyce Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Shinji Post Reply
11/21/2013, 08:00:41

Check it when you have a time. I will post something interesting here also.



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quite a collection there! Thank you for showing it is most enjoyable.
Re: If you like,visit our FB-page -- shinji Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: karavanserai Post Reply
11/21/2013, 07:40:07

martine

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Thank you martine! I try to upload something everyday for a while over there.
Re: quite a collection there! Thank you for showing it is most enjoyable. -- karavanserai Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Shinji Post Reply
11/21/2013, 08:08:06



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Shinji, could you describe how the decoration on the bird beads is created?
Re: If you like,visit our FB-page -- shinji Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: jake@nomaddesign Post Reply
11/21/2013, 15:56:18



Modified by jake@nomaddesign at Thu, Nov 21, 2013, 17:15:00

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OK Jake!
Re: Shinji, could you describe how the decoration on the bird beads is created? -- jake@nomaddesign Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: shinji Post Reply
11/21/2013, 18:44:31

I quote my previous post.
Because my idea about that kind of bird beads have not been changed.

They are my recent found in Java and I'm sure they are ancient glass beads except one bead.

Almost of them belong to type 3) some are type 2).
And Beads of Type 3) are transparent dark blue, beads of type 2) are opaque black in this time.

Good fakes look like type 3) exist also.

**********************************************************************
type 1) - Low quality beads
white motifs are rised on surface.
If you touch the bead ,you feel the motifs.
And after white motifs has gone out,surface is almost flat.
White motifs are not fused well into thier body.
type 1) exist much more than type 2) ans type 3)

type 2) - Midium quality beads
white motifs are rised on surface a litte bit.
If you touch the bead ,you feel the motifs a little bit.
And after white motifs has gone out,you can see the same motif as shallow trace.
White motifs are fused into thier body in shallow.

type 3)- high quality beads
White motifs are not rised on surface.
If you touch the bead ,you don't feel the rise of motifs (surface is almost smooth).
And after white motifs has gone out,you can see the same motif as trace.
It looks like carving and filled with white material as a result.
(I can't judge it's carved or fused well.)
type 3) is difficult to find compared to type 1) and type 2).

*********************************************************************



Modified by shinji at Thu, Nov 21, 2013, 18:47:12

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