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Shiraz Face Beads
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Posted by: alipersia Post Reply
08/14/2013, 10:43:06

Hi there
i think most of you old bead collectors have heard about shiraz face beads.and i thnk it was discussed here before.one of our friends was belive it is not proved making face beads in shiraz in ancient time
and these beads in bazzar are replica.i was dissagree becuse i have seen many of them real old.but also there were fakes in the market.
some years ago i met a man who was digger.i asked him about these face beads and he told me many story about places he found those beads.i discribe him that digging is not good and he must try to protect and ducument what ever he find.after that time he start to taking photoes
from what he found.and later wrote a book in persian about graves and every thing he has seen.he gave many thing to officials to put in museum.unfortunatly many of beads he was found were not in market becuse of private collection and buyers.so we lost many information.
on the other side Archaeologists here also were not intrested to follow beads story and you guess....lately i saw that man and i asked him to give me some pics of face beads founded around shiraz.
here are the pics and i hope friends help to identify if they are made
in some were else.
sorry for poor cuality of fhotos becuse they are photo from photo.
i start with a face bead i had before.lips red mouth black.bigger than normal size.secound one around black .with thoot.founded 200 kilometer far by shiraz.
many thanks
Ali

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Re: Shiraz Face Beads
Re: Shiraz Face Beads -- alipersia Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: alipersia Post Reply
08/14/2013, 10:46:49

one face bead among these beads.founded 100 kilometers south shiraz.
from that book

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Re: Shiraz Face Beads
Re: Re: Shiraz Face Beads -- alipersia Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: alipersia Post Reply
08/14/2013, 10:50:48

he told me the bead in third left was decorated with gold foil glass in around bead but in picture it is gone.has any one seen like this bead.

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: Re: Shiraz Face Beads
Re: Re: Shiraz Face Beads -- alipersia Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: alipersia Post Reply
08/14/2013, 10:52:22

there is one in this strand that i had before.it was also founded 50 kilometers far by shiraz

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: Re: Shiraz Face Beads
Re: : Re: Shiraz Face Beads -- alipersia Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: alipersia Post Reply
08/14/2013, 10:57:22

and 2 pics from that book.i ilked these roman period beads too much.but i dont know were they made in shiraz or rom?
first face beads were founded here with coins form about 100 bc and continued to sassanid period.
Ali

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Re: : Re: Shiraz Face Beads
Re: : Re: Shiraz Face Beads -- alipersia Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: TASART Post Reply
08/16/2013, 06:28:10

Very interesting post, it's great to see you both Ali and Will back on the BCN! Bill Boss and Julie Joint used to have a huge stash of these facebeads from Shiraz, I was informed by some members of this forum that they were all repros.....I do not believe this to be a fact! The beads I saw were in all stages of wear and conditions, some had abundant devitrification, some were pristine, all appeared to be old and authentic!
Also there were examples of of different base colors and some had birds as well. Thank you Ali for posting, I hope you are doing well!!! Thomas



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Re: Shiraz Face Beads
Re: Shiraz Face Beads -- alipersia Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: will Post Reply
08/15/2013, 15:35:09

Hi Ali,

It's very good to hear from you. I just got back to Canada from Southeast Asia a short while ago and I've been trying to catch up with several months of the forum - so many interesting posts from around the world, but none more interesting than this additional information that you're giving us here.

Personally, I didn't - and don't - doubt the age and authenticity of some of these face beads that have been found around Shiraz, but the different colour combinations present a new and wider picture. Whether they were made in Shiraz is another question, however, and one that's much more difficult to answer. I think pretty much all the beads you show could have been manufactured in West Asia (Lebanon, Syria, Egypt) and traded east towards centres of wealth in Persia, Afghanistan and India - perhaps even as far as the coast of what is now Thailand. But there's a real probability to my mind that the technology spread also, and that new centres of production grew up along the trade routes. The only real proof of that would be archaeological, but if the archaeologists aren't interested, we're not going to get any help from that source - more's the pity. The only other evidence would be if quantities of beads were found in the new site that either in style or technique were not found anywhere else in the world. That's what happened with Jatim beads from East Java - many of them resemble West Asian beads but they are made quite differently. If something similar were discovered in Shiraz, then we would have the crucial proof we needed.

All the best,

Will



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Re: Shiraz Face Beads
Re: Shiraz Face Beads -- alipersia Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: mosquitobay Post Reply
08/16/2013, 08:30:38

I have a tendency to believe that these small tabular face beads are in fact ancient. I have heard the various arguments pro and con, and they may not be Roman made, or even Roman era per se, but they are most likely ancient. Whether or not they were produced in Shiraz and not just traded there, is another question.

Below is a group shot of three tabular face beads I believe that the matching pair on the bottom were produced in Alexandria during Ptolemaic Egypt, or during the Roman occupation of Egypt, post Alexander. Just above those is an example of the red background yellow-face beads that have been the subject of at least part of the controversy. They look pretty good to me. When I acquired this one (from Kamol) the story was that they were more "Islamic era" than Roman.

Given the pictorial evidence that Ali is presenting however, the examples very much appear to be authentic Roman era, at least the surrounding beads are. The rare tabular floral patterns shown in the book pictures he showed are most likely Ptolemaic Roman as well. See my second picture for a group of six different that I bought many years ago from Bassem Elias. Unfortunately I only have one left, but they were rare and amazing beads.

So I vote positive for the authenticity of the Shiraz finds, and would lean towards mid to late Roman empire period for production..

Jan Skipper,
Mosquitobay

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: Re: Shiraz Face Beads.....some fakes
Re: Re: Shiraz Face Beads -- mosquitobay Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: alipersia Post Reply
08/16/2013, 12:08:05

Dear friends
Thomas,will,and jan
i am also happy to hear about you.
my intend for puting those face beads in a post was,to find if some of you have similar in color or shape.then it was easier to find
source .will is right they might came to persia from many diffrent place in west asia.also it was a question for me why they have diffrent color and face although all were found in fars province.
maybe becuse of diffrent peiod of making? i dont know.unfortunatly
they are just some sample we could document,i heard about rooster,hen and diffrent
type of face beads.for example one that i pointed earlier with gold foil glass around is really intresting.and for you who are masters
in glass beads,could be a nice topic for research.
i also apriciate sir jan for nice beads photos as always.
i hope some we could have better information about these nice beads.
here are a group of fake face beads that i reported before,and heard these days they found way to east asia.so will if you saw some in thai
market dont surprise.
these fakes first time i saw in shiraz bazzar and thought they are from syria or some where else.but they were made in shiraz
in that time i took some pics and i gave sample to dear friend will.
surely beads from earlier posts are real and ancient,there were other pics also in that book,but mostly coins and other ancient stuff.
again thx for your kind post and help.
Ali

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Modified by alipersia at Fri, Aug 16, 2013, 12:11:35

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Two more tabular face beads...
Re: : Re: Shiraz Face Beads.....some fakes -- alipersia Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: mosquitobay Post Reply
08/16/2013, 12:59:22

Here are two more Roman era face beads in a tabular form, made of mosaic cane slices. The first one is a rather unhappy looking Roman lady. Maybe her husband has been spending too much time at the Games.

The second one is just odd-looking, reminds me of some of those supposed Alien images from Roswell, NM.

Both are very small inside. I apologize for the pic quality it is all I have in my files.

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replica tabular face beads...
Re: Two more tabular face beads... -- mosquitobay Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: mosquitobay Post Reply
08/16/2013, 13:00:45

Here is a replica face bead from Thailand, but I do not know if it was actually produced there or not:

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Re: replica tabular face beads...
Re: replica tabular face beads... -- mosquitobay Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: tofsla Post Reply
08/16/2013, 20:26:04

if photo is correct and its greenish translucent glass, a bit similiar to hineken bottle but more opaque - its most likley been produced in Thailand, at same factory they make beer bottles. I seen production :D



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It looks kind of like a "Beer face" (chuckle)
Re: Re: replica tabular face beads... -- tofsla Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: mosquitobay Post Reply
08/17/2013, 00:19:39



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Makes me think of Mogdiliani...
Re: Two more tabular face beads... -- mosquitobay Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadyeyed Post Reply
08/16/2013, 13:10:28

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Perhaps a better match...
Re: Makes me think of Mogdiliani... -- Beadyeyed Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadyeyed Post Reply
08/16/2013, 13:30:34

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Re: Similar
Re: Shiraz Face Beads -- alipersia Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Will Post Reply
08/17/2013, 05:27:40

Hi again Ali,

Here'a very similar bead from the New York Metropolitan Museum - said to be from the Eastern Mediterranean, 2000 years old.

Plus a more unusual one from the Miho Museum near Kyoto (the most beautiful musum in the world, I think).

All the best,

Will

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Twisted and degraded!
Re: Shiraz Face Beads -- alipersia Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Will Post Reply
08/17/2013, 05:47:15

I like these imperfect ones too.

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Modified by Will at Sat, Aug 17, 2013, 05:48:30

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