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Just a quick question on pre-1940 cloisonne beads
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Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
06/28/2013, 09:11:18

Does anyone have any verifiable evidence that the Chinese made cloisonne beads prior to the late 30s? I mean actual cloisonne, not enameled silver.

I see lots of things advertised as being from 1910, but the attributions are usually because the beads are beat-up or the brass has developed verdigris or some antique dealer thinks the enamels are the same as bric-a-brac produced pre-WWII.

Whereas there are tons of items out there produced from the late 1950s through the 1990s that mimic very well the styles and opaque enamels from the pre-WWII decades. Enamel recipes don't just vanish like smoke, people do remember stuff that works. Ditto successful designs - if something sold well before, the likelihood is that it contains some sort of appeal that will continue to sell.



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The oldest Chinese cloisonne beads I've been able to find
Re: Just a quick question on pre-1940 cloisonne beads -- beadiste Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
06/29/2013, 14:07:08

1930s? These were the ones that were strung with the pink and red Boshan "starburst" beads.

They're only about 12-14mm in size, which make the detail on them rather fine.

CloisonnePreWWII_001.jpg (93.3 KB)  


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Similar fine twisted wire forming the cloisons
Re: The oldest Chinese cloisonne beads I've been able to find -- beadiste Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
06/29/2013, 14:17:57

This time applied to silver mesh. Beads measure about 26x16mm.

Guessing they're also from the 1930s-40s unless someone knows a different story.



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The pic that I should have attached to previous post
Re: Similar fine twisted wire forming the cloisons -- beadiste Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
06/29/2013, 14:20:21

CloisonnePreWWII_002.jpg (154.0 KB)  


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Re: enamel areas over silver wire mesh
Re: The pic that I should have attached to previous post -- beadiste Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Stefany Post Reply
06/30/2013, 14:16:29

well, for my shop in the 1990s we were buying new rather elaborate attractive chinese jewellery items with enamel areas mounted onto silver mesh artificially oxidised to appear old, rather similar to what you show-
earrings with dragons, etc, jointed slinky fish...
does yours have hallmarks etc?



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Still being made today - so-called "Tibet Silver"
Re: Re: enamel areas over silver wire mesh -- Stefany Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
06/30/2013, 14:39:55

I see it all over eBay, Stefany, usually in segmented bracelets or brooches or rings, combined with inexpensive cabochon stones. Usually referred to as "Tibet-silver." [pics show some typical pieces]

The little blue flower endcaps seem to be a 30s thing, however - later versions from the 90s all seem to be a bit larger and black.

CloisonneTibetSilverBracelet.JPG (83.3 KB)  CloisonneTibetSilverPendant.JPG (76.8 KB)  


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Hallmark - a typical Chinese stamping
Re: Re: enamel areas over silver wire mesh -- Stefany Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
06/30/2013, 19:18:45

The clasp is a hidden box clasp in one of the beads - the tongue is stamped "Silver," and appears to have a bit of gold wash over it.



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Silver fish like this one?
Re: Re: enamel areas over silver wire mesh -- Stefany Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
07/05/2013, 12:01:40

They seem to show up at the usual auction sites.

chinese_silver_7__articulated_blue_enamel_filigree_fish_pendant_charm_cloisonne_2_lgw_(2).jpg (94.4 KB)  chinese_silver_7__articulated_blue_enamel_filigree_fish_pendant_charm_cloisonne_5_lgw_(2).jpg (113.8 KB)  


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I vaguely recall that these particular wire mesh beads may have been made in the late 1980's
Re: The pic that I should have attached to previous post -- beadiste Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick Post Reply
07/01/2013, 00:18:36

There seems to be a primal urge for each of us to try to push the dates back on our beads by at least ten years (if not one or two hundred years.)

There were early versions of the wire mesh bead. But the mesh was much finer.

Frederick

Modified by Frederick at Mon, Jul 01, 2013, 10:47:24

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Gold versions from the 1930s
Re: I vaguely recall that these particular wire mesh beads may have been made in the late 1980's -- Frederick Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
07/01/2013, 09:31:28

On eBay recently there were some beads offered with the following description:

STERLING SILVER VERMEIL (gold coating) with COBALT BLUE and TURQUOISE ENAMELING. They are never-used old store stock, made in China during the 1930's. The old tags were still on when I purchased them. They are handcrafted, so each bead is unique.

These RARE beads are hollow with cobalt blue and turquoise enamel flowers. The bead caps are cobalt blue. They measure 25x11mm.

Cloisonne1930sMeshBlue.JPG (39.4 KB)  


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I am trying very hard to "Hear no evil, See no evil and Speak no evil."
Re: Gold versions from the 1930s -- beadiste Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick Post Reply
07/01/2013, 10:11:00

Let us say that the number "3" in 1930 is not clear enough to read properly; I believe it should read "8".

Frederick

Modified by Frederick at Mon, Jul 01, 2013, 10:46:00

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Vendors can be mistaken...
Re: I am trying very hard to "Hear no evil, See no evil and Speak no evil." -- Frederick Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
07/01/2013, 13:03:27

...but this one does seem to recognize and correctly represent newer cloisonne beads - here's a quote from one of her descriptions:

"For sale today we have a pair of beautiful vintage Chinese Cloissone beads from the 1980's or earlier. OK, so she mis-spelled cloisonne. It happens.

Can 80-year-old gold-plated beads look the same as 30-year-old beads, if they've been stored unused in warm dry conditions? Seems unlikely to me, although finer silver seems to take a good while longer than sterling to blacken - less copper to interact with atmospheric sulphur?



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Re: Vendors can be mistaken...
Re: Vendors can be mistaken... -- beadiste Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: thengan Post Reply
07/08/2013, 11:09:14

Probably mis-spelled ( US-USA )...:-)
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0923110.html



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Another mesh cloisonne "Deco" necklace
Re: I vaguely recall that these particular wire mesh beads may have been made in the late 1980's -- Frederick Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
07/01/2013, 15:45:04

ChineseEnamelMeshDecoNecklace_(2).jpg (102.5 KB)  

Related link: http://iantiqueonline.ning.com/photo/chinese-silver-enamel-art-deco

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And a "1940s" bracelet from the same vendor
Re: Another mesh cloisonne "Deco" necklace -- beadiste Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
07/01/2013, 15:55:34

Clasp has the usual "Silver" stamp.

Again, I do not think that just because someone says something that it is necessarily true. However, this particular vendor moves a lot of vintage jewelry, accessories, and clothing.

I note the little granulation dots and the older-fashioned style of cloud motif.

CloisonneEnamelMesh1940s.jpg (129.2 KB)  CloisonneEnamelMesh1940sBack.jpg (129.0 KB)  


Modified by beadiste at Tue, Jul 02, 2013, 08:15:47

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From a Mandarin Court Necklace?
Re: The oldest Chinese cloisonne beads I've been able to find -- beadiste Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick Post Reply
06/30/2013, 23:59:40

Hi Chris,

Because of the small 12-14mm diameter and possible age of the silver gilt round beads, they could have been part of the 108 beads in a Mandarin Court Necklace. This type of enamel work is more often found in the tabular bead, a counter weight suspended in back.

The thing is, the work is refined but does not project well. In person, these would seem rather dull -perhaps because they are small and tarnished. In any case, the detail is meticulous; I feel it was made for descriminating taste and therefore an indication of the wearer's status in Chinese society.

Frederick

Modified by Frederick at Mon, Jul 01, 2013, 09:04:04

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These are the ones possibly from a MCN:
Re: From a Mandarin Court Necklace? -- Frederick Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick Post Reply
07/06/2013, 16:02:14

Coaching for collectors:
These are so small that in person they do not project well. Also, they are quite tarnished.
But in a small version, the detail seems more refined.

2BCN.jpg (70.4 KB)  
Frederick

Modified by Frederick at Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 16:41:51

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