mixture older + newer, and a favourite even if its not old or traditional...

I am not trying to upset/insult anyone, but please help me with one question -

Do people collect pumtek, bcs they can't afford real things (gzi)? or there is attraction in pumtek by itself?

I.e. people collect them as cheap substitute? or they are product of art?

thank you for answer,

I sense you're about to get hammered by the downriver drinkers.

I read Jammy article, and few other things on Pyu/gzi/Pumtek, however my question is not academic (this I leave to you and Jammie and other people)

My question is more spiritual and filly-touchy. Let me elaborate, as I hope I get better answer this way:

1. For me gzi beads are product of ultimate beauty that human who is both blessed and with very good karma on many levels, have chance to have. I am not going into more detail - but there are allmost nothing in material world (I REPEAT IN MATERIAL) that I consider to be equal to gzi. I been collecting them for over 20yrs, so I have my money and my life where my mouth is!

2. Pumtek beads presented look to me like piece of wood, and not even good looking piece of wood, with scratched lines that in state of drunkenness can remote remind gzi beads to blind minds.

AS RESULT OF 1 and 2 I am trying to understand WHY? Why people collect pumtek beads? What is driver? What is the reason? Hope thats explain my question.

For example, I dont collect glass beads, but I clearly can explain why people collect them - they are pretty. I dont collect cars - but I can clearly explain why people collect them - they are pretty, etc, etc. etc...

Unfortunately for me I can't explain why people collect pumtek, so I am asking on this forum, with hope to get answer!

I hope I did not insult upset anyone. This is personal view. Some people love houses, diamonds, cars, watches... So i have right to love gzi? do i?

I found this analysis interesting:

"Uncovering the History Behind Collecting" by Diane Fricke:

"People have been collecting for centuries. These collections range from rare baseball cards worth thousands of dollars to the exotic gems that glisten in display cases, showing their wealth. However, more collections are comprised of oddities that have little value beyond the sentiment for the collector.

Even with a collection of high dollar value, it isn't often that a collector sells the collection to claim the money. Why, then, would someone put so much time and effort into amassing a collection?

Terry Shoptaugh, University archirist and instructor at Minnesota State University Moorhead, can shine some light on why people collect. In his article, “Why Do We Like Old Things? Some Ruminations on History and Memory,” Shoptaugh offers the idea that collecting is based on a need to inspire recoluction. People collect in an effort to remember and relive the past. "We use keepsakes to stimulate memory, especially to trigger fond memories,” Shoptaugh writes. “But even if memory cannot be relied upon to faithfully reproduce a record of the past, it remains vital to our understanding of the past.” This may explain why people collect old war memorabilia in an effort to remember the romantic aspects of war while not forgetting the true horror of such times.

As an anthropologist from the University of California, Marjorie Akin is an expert on the subject of why people collect. Her essay, “Passionate Possession: The Formation of Private Collections,” shares Shoptaugh’s idea that people collect for a connection to the past and memories. “Objects can connect the collector to the historic, valued past,” Akin writes. Stetond the past, Akin also includes four other reasons why people collect. The first is to satisfy a sense of personal aesthetics. Some collect to please personal tastes. Others collect items that are weird or unusual to show individualism. Another reason is for the collector’s need to be complete. Akin said she has seen people cry out in relief once their collection is complete. While Akin says many know the value of their collection to the penny, but never sell a thing, she believes some people collect for money and profit.

Kim A. Herzinger, an English professor, award-winning author and avid collector, provides yet another twist on obsession with collecting. "Collecting is a means by which one relieves a basic sense of incompletion brought on by unfulfilled childhood needs,” Herzinger said. “It functions as a form of wish fulfillment, which eases deep-rooted uncertainties and existential dread.”

Psychologist Werner Muensterberger shares Herzinger’s idea. In his book titled “Collecting: An Unruly Passion: Psychological Perspectives,” Muensterberger says that control of the object collected brings “relief of the child’s anxiety and frustration that comes with feeling helpless and being alone.” While collecting stems from incompletion of the past, Herzinger adds that it's also a passion. “Collecting, like most passions, has the capacity to let (the collector) live in another world for a while. If I could tell you why passion allows us to inhabit another world, I would stop collecting.” Herzinger says the collector is engaged in a kind of worship. “(The collector) is experiencing the kind of sensory transcendence that we most closely associate with religion or love. And, like religion or love, his collection is a kind of security against uncertainty and loss.”

The sense of completion is one of the main drives for collectors. Experience however, Herzinger continues to explain that it's important for collectors to maintain a sense of control over their own collection. To collect every baseball card would be impossible, leaving the collector with a feeling of always being overwhelmed. To cure this, the collector narrows the field from baseball cards to, let's say, the New York Yankees cards. As the collection becomes more advanced, so does the procedure for collecting more cards. The collection goes from New York Yankees to Roger Maris. In this way, the collector can maintain the balance of control and completion. Herzinger also warns that while the collection brings much love and joy to the collector, there will always be disappointment. “I once had a very good friend, a record collector, who was showing me around his jazz collection. At some point, after itemizing some of the choicest items, he fell into a kind of silent ache, apparently disappointed with my response, or lack of it.”

Many people feel they have a special bond with their collection and can’t help but feel frustrated that no one seems to appreciate it as much as they do. However, if the thought of collecting due to nostalgia and need for control seem impossible to agree with, Kurt Kuersteiner offers one more reason. In his article, “Collecting Collections,” Kuersteiner says, “I believe the main reason people collect something is a basic interest in the topic.” Can it really be that simple? The debate over the reasons people collect continues to go on, but the one truth that cannot be denied is that people will always continue to collect, whatever the reason."

Thank you Diane Fricke,

Fred, thanks for this! I also think that collecting provides a person with an "instant" group of like-minded people to associate with, a tribe of sorts. Not sure if this is a good generalization- maybe there are a lot more reclusive collectors than I imagine.

I have collected many different things over my lifetime, and I stopped thinking my collecting habit was strange when I heard about the people who collect antique barbed wire.

Have seen very neat decorative wall art made with it here in N. California, and it is sort of special here, as the old ranches, with their generations of past owners of thousands of acres of ranch land, for example, are disappearing as the land goes to coastal conservancies, BLM, and such...well, barbed wire is disappearing from our regional landscape. It's a nostalgia thing for me.

quick search returning interesting websites, as this one

Not even cool old (or even antique) barbed wire..... Just some old wiring, some plastic some cloth-wrapped wiring from a building demolition.

I have an idea for it, but I have to admit, when I opened the box & saw it, I thought, "WHAT was I thinking???" LOL

And yes, I have some pumteks I bought years ago from Rings 'n Things & I LOVE them!

I've always felt it's part of our hunter-gatherer nature.
Once we developed an "eye" for beauty and novelty, it would be a natural extension to go from food-gathering to rock collecting. "Grub. Grub. Root. Berry!!! Yum! Grub. Oooh, look at the pretty pebble!"

Given that some of the oldest known artifacts (and for sure, COLLECTED artifacts, i.e. shells with holes) were beads--serving no purpose except adornment, or social standing?--the desire to own/wear unique/beautiful things is as old as the human race.

In connection with our general human nature/hard wiring for collecting, I think it also fulfills our need to be seen as an individual. A few years ago, Smithsonian Magazine had an article on the history of shoes. What caught my interest was a prehistoric woven straw sandal, beautifully designed. What was even more remarkable was the maker had crafted different shoes for different people! The conclusion was that the desire for uniqueness was highly prized even in ancient times.

Reminds me of when I did a lot of mail art, I spoke to a stamp shop owner who said that in her 50 years of selling stamps to collectors, she never once met two stamp collectors who collected exactly the same thing...!

As they say Beauty in the Eyes etc, etc.. So will be good to know what different people see as most striking bead they every seen. I will start!

So, I am posting bead that I consider to be THE ULTIMATE MOST BEAUTIFUL BEAD ON EARTH. Its not mine but I had luck to hold it in my hand, and I know past and present owners.

Lady and Gents - let me present you THE FATHER OF ALL GZI BEAD - double sagonamko with Eyes!

Firstly I dont want to see my bead collecting as any kind of competition. i like variety rather than perfection!

i like BCN because people here share images of what they have and what they want to find out and what they know -there are many friends here whom i havent even met in real life.

Secondly- i am fascinated by beads because they represent a hunger for ornament and for keepsakes, and have been around ever since beings began to express their abilities and skills more than purely for survival..
i am interested in the development and refinement of every kind of technique of making, and "beads" happens to be a subject which includes examples of pretty well every hand- and later machine- craft as well as illustrating the things people admired over the aeons, enough to try to replicate what they valued. so for me all beads of any material including what some describe as "fakes" have a worth and can teach us something and connect us with our inventive ancestors. and from the practical point of view, being small, beads tend to survive-

the traditions associated with some beads are really interesting...from a social history point of view.

the examples of "pumtek" types shown include both older and newer ones, and i like that i can sometimes see how they were done.

all the greatest discoveries and inventions follow from accumulating random trivial facts, or observations, or objects -which stop seeming trivial and unrelated as soon as they are combined to produce something new
- a good reason to throw nothing away...

Stefany, I very very much appreciated that you took time and wrote such a detail reply.

I am strange person in this respect - I am more interested in WHY people doing something (i.e. collecting beads in this case) then in WHAT they are doing (i.e why people make beads on first place).

So, for me any explanation from bead-collector point of view that different from mine is very valuable and I appreciate it very much. As I said before, I do care very much why people doing something TODAY, and much less care why they done something in A PAST, so history and technology behind BEADMAKING as any history and technology leaves me cold.

Thanks again!

what is your first language? Your English suggests English is not your first language. Perhaps we can accommodate you with our broken versions of your first language. Please, write to us in your first language.

What we put on our bodies defines us.

Beads have the ironic position of being cheap enough to be ignored as insignificant and expensive enough to be viewed as power symbols.

Tribal identity, economic power - the jewelry and clothing you wear - or own - defines you.

and please try to describe and identify them with something more than campfire jargon. Ignorant compliments might not be the fault of the 98.

such as at a bead society meeting, or at Tucson bead shows. I love beads and wear them every day. But since there probably are fewer than 10 "bead people" in the entire county where I live, the beads I wear go pretty much unrecognized. If they are noticed at all, people know they haven't seen my beads at Ross or Macy's!

Let me just give you example. I just come back from puja (today is special Green Tara prayer day). So, after puja finished, everyone including our Tulku (monk) spend about 1 hour talking about beads! We been testing some amber malas (using fire) to check out if they are made from Amber or Plastic!

Can you imagine, christian priest and all people in church start talking beads after prayers? :)

All way from Mongolia till Indonesia - bead culture is very strong! All Far Eastern Part of the world.

skyiron Amitābha Buddha from Tibet

beads are pure existential creatures - so its ok to be attached to them :)... hahahaa

nature made something with a hole in it that you want to call a bead when you put a string through the hole. Come down to Earth, pal!

As I mentioned, yesterday was Green Tara Day and beads been offered to Tara.

Until beads are offered to Gods, we all be alive and fine! We just have to be in Right Place and Love Right Gods!

Piece everyone!

These beads, yours, are foolishly and grossly overvalued and overpriced. Big deal!

i.e. as per your post - bead that you will call "grossly undervalue, and underpriced". Thank you much!

u mean african bird?

"kori" is a bead, a bead name, the oldest bead name in Indo-European literature.

So, far my search comes up with some cooked blue glass from Africa, like this ebay auction 271170795659 that went unsold at $30 and some 90yrs old old laddy in Ghana that cook them.

I am sure my search MUST be wrong?

Sorry, already seen photos...

Not my ultimate, but I do love these beads:

I. Ancient beads of lapis, some ex Lankton collection.

II. Ancient beads of "Roman" era amber, Jordan.

Jake these are amazing!!! I would be sh*t scared to wear Roman Amber beads. They so fragile - you are hero!

Is this lapis etched? there are some dots on that look like dice bead?
I always felt among stone beads lapis is most under appreciated. I always wonder why... What is VERY GOOD news, I notice lateley that some Chinese wearing LAPIS DISKS and old LAPIS BEADS (that traditional Jade disks as you know, except they made from LAPIS now). That tell me it will go up, as anything else that Chinese touch!

I know personally 2 different people - one Tibetan and one American, who offer everything they had to own this one.

Tibetan offer - hotel, house and factory in Bodha, and American offer houses in FL and AZ... AND NO LUCK. owner did not trade or sell... So, I am just keep dreaming and dreaming and dreaming...

Your day job isn't a lawyer, is it?

I just trying to find language that hoodoohodown can find acceptable, as my English is not good for him!

Just trying to guess this guy's first language...

The answers you seek may be described by this relevant site, Kirk.

gluttony, greed, sloth, and pride.

Here is a bead that has many things going on, rarity is the key thing about this one, it is a very old Venetian blown bead, as far as I know (as well as some informed other collectors) this is the only bead of its kind found in an unbroken state. Shards of this type have been documented as being a part of a broken vessel, until this bead was found, this type was unknown. I consider it beautiful in the history it can shed on the bead industry at the time it was made......pay close attention to the fragments embedded in the surface, even some of them are extremely rare!

Thanks much. That was my hope, when I posted big gzi picture on the first place! I had hope it will inspire people to post something they see as beautiful! I dont know how conversation got drifted!!!

But I wanted to see beautiful beads thru other people eyes and know what theysee as WORLD MOST BEAUTIFUL BEADS!...

I did not want to offend anyone, I just wanted to see some pictures and learn something new!

Thank you for this!

for you

11 Cm long

that made my day!!! 11cm long thats seals it!

Veni vidi.. its also very amazing design, i.e not just beads are all good, but they way how artist put it together is something special!

we hold them for short life time,or Les and then we past them to the next......
all the best

Many_Coloured_Showy_Trashy .....
( many colors hier to : http://www.pbase.com/thengan/image/82176365 , NATURE )
and enjoyable ART : http://www.pbase.com/thengan/image/112645059

A large (43mm long) ancient bead which fittingly resembles maps of the
ancient world.

Do you think its Solomon agate?

Do you think it was fire enchanced? i.e been dropped in fire/heated to bring up qualites of stone?

What time and period is it??

Thanks much for reply

Hello Tofsia,

It does not resemble any Solomon agates I have seen. If the seller was
correct (a reputable dealer), it would be older than Sulemani agates.
I was told that it is neolithic -- 3000 BC -- from Western Asia. There is a small cavity with remains of crystals inside. I would guess that it was not formed, but that a hole was made in a beautiful, large pebble. On the other hand, it does show some polish. If I am correct, I wonder how how much age the pebble showed when the hole was made. (The hole is clearly not recent.)

In any case, I did not buy it for its pedigree, but for its character. It is a Toshiro Mifune* of beads -- an old warrior who has lived long and seen much.

Terry

*in later films

thats very good one liner! I will remember this! Do you wear it now and then? it will look good with gold in gold... nothing else will give this one proper surrounding!