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Chung dZi real or not?
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Posted by: tofsla Post Reply
01/21/2013, 07:53:53

Hi,

I am new to this forum and I hope someone can help me to ID these beads. Seller claims they are real and come from Afghanistan. I am not sure, but i never seen Chinese fakes of Chung dZi, so i think, if they fake they must be very new production from India?


Thank you for help

28842_129634653856119_1281456330_n.jpg (85.0 KB)  


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New dZi for sure, I think they are Chinese.
Re: Chung dZi real or not? -- tofsla Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: jake@nomaddesign Post Reply
01/21/2013, 07:58:50



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Re: Chung dZi real or not?
Re: Chung dZi real or not? -- tofsla Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: dannoh40 Post Reply
01/21/2013, 08:23:44

newer dZi's......Try not to forget that even though some Dzi's are newer or new..they still can be very expensive..
Check on gurda trading site and click "new dZi's"....I think you'll be shocked at the costs of the "new" dZi beads.
There are loads of new one's being sold as ancient so watch out and be sure and stop by here and get a second oppinion....



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High Prices
Re: Re: Chung dZi real or not? -- dannoh40 Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Russ Nobbs Post Reply
01/21/2013, 18:04:39

I looked at http://www.garudashop.com/New_dZi_beads_s/153.htm and saw many beads very similar to ones I bought in China 2 years ago. Most of them sold for much lower prices than posted on this site for beads "sourced in Nepal."

Many styles of agate beads are currently made in China but are sold as old or ancient when they arrive in North America or Europe.

Here are some that, at least, do not claim to be ancient or even to reproduce an old style. These are heat and dye enhanced.

Fired_AgateCR_004.jpg (138.8 KB)  


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Re: High Prices
Re: High Prices -- Russ Nobbs Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: tofsla Post Reply
01/22/2013, 08:10:22

Price of every fake dZi goes up if you put it next to real Dzi for 1-2 nights, as magical dust from real dZi get shaken over to fake one... :)



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I'll try that tonight!
Re: Re: High Prices -- tofsla Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Joyce Post Reply
01/22/2013, 15:49:56

(Just kidding!)

Yes, as with everything else, the new replicas are rising in price.



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Excellent practice for improving copy dZi!!!!
Re: Re: High Prices -- tofsla Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Russ Nobbs Post Reply
01/22/2013, 21:15:20



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It has same feel to it as Nepalese(stripped) Chung dZii!
Re: Chung dZi real or not? -- tofsla Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: tofsla Post Reply
01/21/2013, 09:01:04

I have my own conspiracy theory (dont KILL ME pls!) that all famous Nepalese Stripped Chung dZi are fakes from India and there is NO UNKNOWN SITE in Nepal where they all come from... And these beads feel kind of indentical in shape/patina and craftsmanship (or lack of it). This why i think they not Chinese.. Thnks



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Re: Chung dZi real or not?
Re: Chung dZi real or not? -- tofsla Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: bonpo Post Reply
01/21/2013, 09:21:29

unearthed Chung dZi from Afghanistan,It's difficult to judge with only one photo, but for me these look ancient.



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the right side bead looks reground. the middle one also??
Re: Chung dZi real or not? -- tofsla Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: jj Post Reply
01/21/2013, 23:41:40



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2 more photos
Re: Chung dZi real or not? -- tofsla Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: tofsla Post Reply
01/22/2013, 07:36:58

Thank you evereyone for reply. More looking and thinking - its ether fake, or reground beads, but more i look and think - its Indian fake. not Chinese fake.

Cheers

image2.jpg (68.4 KB)  image3.jpg (102.1 KB)  


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I broached the topic with Matt, and he concurs they look good...
Re: Chung dZi real or not? -- tofsla Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: jake@nomaddesign Post Reply
01/23/2013, 23:07:27

Reckon I could be hoodwinked by the fresh polish. I have handled some of these types of beautiful chung dZi in Tashiling Tibetan refugee camp Pokhara Nepal.

1st. Photo of one of Matt's many fine beads.
2nd. from dZi blogspot

Thanks Matt!

BC1270.jpg (0 bytes)  DSCF8982.jpg (10210 bytes)  


Modified by jake@nomaddesign at Wed, Jan 23, 2013, 23:10:50

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Matt's Bead
Re: I broached the topic with Matt, and he concurs they look good... -- jake@nomaddesign Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: jake@nomaddesign Post Reply
01/23/2013, 23:12:33

Matt's_dZi_Chung.jpg (157.4 KB)  


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thank you for reply. I am not convinced. they real
Re: I broached the topic with Matt, and he concurs they look good... -- jake@nomaddesign Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: tofsla Post Reply
01/24/2013, 06:38:03

i think we all get used to Chinese fakes, but there are also Indian fakes, Pakistani fakes and Nepali fakes. I am struggle to figure out why i never seen so many chungdZi 20yrs ago, as I see it now? Does it mean most of them new made? or there are new digs?



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Our hands on, and very knowledgeable Matt (tiger tiger) counters:
Re: thank you for reply. I am not convinced. they real -- tofsla Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: jake@nomaddesign Post Reply
01/25/2013, 20:54:08

"IF those beads were in CHatuchak sevral weeks ago they are very good frauds. "



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This looks similiar
Re: Our hands on, and very knowledgeable Matt (tiger tiger) counters: -- jake@nomaddesign Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: tofsla Post Reply
01/26/2013, 16:59:13

With all due respect to Matt, I am not sure. Check links. I dont like colors, patina, shape.

http://www.asianart.com/phpforum/index.php?method=detailAll&Id=30756&PHPSESSID=c053e6a28df2b806649399f48b0ee7ae

http://www.asianart.com/phpforum/index.php?method=detailAll&Id=30213#30213



Modified by tofsla at Sat, Jan 26, 2013, 17:12:10

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Also I am not even sure its agate...
Re: Our hands on, and very knowledgeable Matt (tiger tiger) counters: -- jake@nomaddesign Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: tofsla Post Reply
01/26/2013, 20:35:06

Its may be different stone all together - serpentine, its been used in Afhgan/India/Pakistan, See picture... So my confusion is going on...

serpentine0.jpg (40.9 KB)  


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The difference between agate and serpentine is very easy to differentiate,
Re: Also I am not even sure its agate... -- tofsla Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: jake@nomaddesign Post Reply
01/26/2013, 23:19:41

scratch test with quartz point.

All of us could easily make a blunder from a photo. I have known Matt for over fifteen years. I have immense faith in Matt's hands on knowledge, and opinion. Like you, Matt, and I were obsessed with dZi before there was such thing as a modern reproduction. If Matt says the bead he photographed is original historical dZi, it very most likely is.

Peacefully, Jake.



Modified by jake@nomaddesign at Sun, Jan 27, 2013, 03:49:57

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Re: Also I am not even sure its agate...
Re: Also I am not even sure its agate... -- tofsla Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: jj Post Reply
01/27/2013, 02:45:22

agate & serpentine are worlds apart - if you are not confident in telling them apart then you should be very cautious in buying (supposedly) authentic dzi beads. Good luck!



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Have been reluctant...
Re: I broached the topic with Matt, and he concurs they look good... -- jake@nomaddesign Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: mosquitobay Post Reply
01/27/2013, 14:08:31

I have been reluctant to post on this issue, mainly because I do not trust myself in all cases with dZi beads. It is often easier to say something is not authentic than it is to say yes it is.

Sometimes it is obvious, after seeing so many authentic beads and so many replicas. But occasionally one comes along that you are just not sure about, especially without the fondle effect.

If I was given these beads by someone I trusted I would not hesitate to believe they are authentic. If I was handed them by a stranger I would be reluctant.

Does that make any sense?

They look pretty dogone good to me.

Remember, no one (not even the "great one") has seen all of the good authentic beads out there. There is always one that one that nobody has seen before.



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Best summary!
Re: Have been reluctant... -- mosquitobay Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: tofsla Post Reply
01/27/2013, 16:46:13

Thank you. It makes perfect sense. I want also add to it cost factor. Say, real one will cost you $2000+, fake one $10 - price of making mistake 200times. Fake one cost you $10, real one cost you $100, price of mistake - 10times. I can risk 1:10, i can't risk 1:100... Thats main issue with dZi and dZi-like bead - I will not touch them unless i am absolute sure - price of been wrong huge!



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by "real", do you mean "old"
Re: Chung dZi real or not? -- tofsla Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: hoodoohodown Post Reply
01/27/2013, 16:56:19

If they aren't covered with a lot of tiny nicks, chips, etc., they're new. Should be obvious these are new, "real" new.



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Re: by "real", do you mean "old"
Re: by "real", do you mean "old" -- hoodoohodown Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: mosquitobay Post Reply
01/27/2013, 17:41:51

Perhaps under normal "found" conditions this is true, we sure see plenty of beat up beads. But on the other hand there are plenty of examples of ancient beads and other objects coming out of the ground or a tomb in pristine like new condition.

No clear cut rules, that is what makes it sooooo interesting, yes?



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Ahh yesss....the allure of the Dzi bead....
Re: Re: by "real", do you mean "old" -- mosquitobay Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: JohnnyAppleBead Post Reply
01/27/2013, 18:18:51

Many are easy to spot as not old and authentic...many copy/replicas in my collection that I did not pay dearly for, but I value. I enjoy the silver one...and love my large Chung Dzi.... There's a book, published in China on Dzi's. Happy beading :-)

1_IMG_0799.JPG (119.5 KB)  1_DSC_0097.jpg (111.4 KB)  


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And Again!
Re: Chung dZi real or not? -- tofsla Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: tofsla Post Reply
03/05/2013, 17:20:40

Check this e-bay item 150961217212 I am coming to STRONG VERY VERY VERY STRONG conclusion that there is factory in Peshwar that making it as we speak. They all look about same and come from about same place. AND I DID NOT SEE IT 20yrs ago!!!

Anyone has any ideas?



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