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Chinese? Japanese? Both? Neither?
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Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
10/07/2012, 10:16:19

I recognize the rudraksha beads...

But the "coral" seems sketchy, more like dyed bone or something.

And the "carved" beads seem to be pressed/molded, plus the motifs seem to be more Japanese than Chinese.

When were beads like these likely made?

eBay item 290767352390

JapaneseorChinese.jpg (163.6 KB)  

Related link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/290767352390?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_nkw%3D290767352390%26_rdc%3D1
Modified by beadiste at Sun, Oct 07, 2012, 10:18:52

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Re:Japanese beads
Re: Chinese? Japanese? Both? Neither? -- beadiste Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Stefany Post Reply
10/07/2012, 13:19:44

this is a typical necklace combination from the early C20th- there are usually large-holed glass, stone, wood, stained bone "coral" twigs, and caricature double-faced heads of demons or other subjects made from some kind of moulded composition that may be finished to look lacquered. Sometimes they have metal sleeves or collars at either end of the hole.
they seem to have been made for sale to tourists of the time rather than for local taste. they arent Ojime...
i have strands with very similar sequences of these beads.
Frederick may also ask whether the bead types are in multiples of 4 as they could have been used to weigh down the corners of small table cloths, and that could direct the discussion further...



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Re: Chinese? Japanese? Both? Neither?
Re: Chinese? Japanese? Both? Neither? -- beadiste Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick Post Reply
10/07/2012, 23:14:35

I would like to imagine that these beads were souvenirs from a world cruise on the Queen Mary or some other luxury voyage in the early 20th century. And these do seem to be "tourist" or "market" strands because they appear to be mostly commercial. Dozens of times, I have run into nearly identical necklaces on Portobello Road in London & occasionally on eBay.

The iconography on the molded beads is clearly Japanese: Treasures of the Takaramono and masks from the Noh Theatre, Okame and Oni. These images are clues to the origin of these beads but not necessarily evidence.

A reckless assumption would also be that all Japanese beads are extremely well crafted: Therefore, these could not be Japanese...In fact, I do not know whether they were made by Chinese or Japanese craftsmen. Meanwhile, a friend likes to say that such examples were probably made by Chinese under the direction of Japanese entrepreneurship. Personally, I feel there are more clues which support the theory they are Chinese.

From my experience, as a specialist in ojime for forty years, I can assume that the diameter of these beads is about 3/4" or 18 mm. Also, the aperture of about 3 mm would be consistent with the size used for the majority of ojime..."Ojime" literally means slide closure in the Japanese language. Therefore, the hole needs to function well as a slide.

Many years ago, I frequently found beads -like the ones in this necklace- on the four corners of Chinese, beautifully embroidered, black silk, Mahjong table covers. More often than not, these necklaces are comprised of various groups of four like the ones found on the table covers. The necklace in the eBay auction -referenced in Chris' post- is different from all of the others I have experienced because a large Peking glass bead has been added as a centerpiece.

In order to maintain their status in the community, "experts" are often compelled to resort to clues rather than evidence –leading to hasty assumptions. The only absolute truth about ojime is that there is an exception to every rule. Fine Ojime are among the rarest and most artistic of all beads. Notice the ojime depicting sumo wrestlers on the back jacket of the latest edition of American edition of The History of Beads.

I am surprised and delighted to hear this eBay seller calling her beads "Chinese." After all, Chinese beads are selling very well these days.

Frederick

Modified by Frederick at Mon, Oct 08, 2012, 05:49:28

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Has anyone ever tested...
Re: Re: Chinese? Japanese? Both? Neither? -- Frederick Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
10/08/2012, 09:28:25

the material from which the pressed/molded beads are made?



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I will try to help anyway I can...
Re: Has anyone ever tested... -- beadiste Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick Post Reply
10/08/2012, 22:02:06

Dear Chris,

Free of cost,

I would be pleased to send a composition bead to someone for a test.
And how would this person determine the composition of this bead?
Or, what would you like to determine, and how would you proceed?

I hear that even with an entire industrial lab at your disposal -after ruling out glass and stone by inspection- it starts to get difficult.

Also, I've been informed that "microscopy may reveal a lot as well, but not composition. And, that If you have samples of a known composition to compare to an unknown, then the task gets a lot easier. Thus, the fingerprints of the compounds can be compared. But searching the encyclopedia of chemical fingerprints is a formidable task, if starting from scratch, even if you have reduced the number of possibilities by clever deduction."

As I said, I will be happy to donate and mail a bead to you or anyone else, if:
he or she will propose a course of action and make a commitment on this
forum to get back to us with the results of the test, in timely manner.

Sincerely,

Frederick

Modified by Frederick at Tue, Oct 09, 2012, 01:01:30

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Mine were posted on the trades page recently
Re: Re: Chinese? Japanese? Both? Neither? -- Frederick Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: paula Post Reply
10/08/2012, 15:18:24

I offered this necklace for sale, unsuccessfully, on our Trades pages during the summer and included a link to a BCN discussion from a few years back. I don't have time to access and include the link right now. Yes, Frederick, I bought the necklace from a collector who had had a shop on Portobello Rd. back in the 80s-90s. Mine has more than 40 beads, as compared to the one for sale on Ebay which appears to be more of a choker. And other than the carved masks being red, the pieces are quite similar. Are there any clues to be found in the designs on the molded beads? Paula

1_Mixed-Chinese.jpg (82.5 KB)  Chinese_closeup.jpg (56.8 KB)  


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Treasures of the Gods, the Takarabune:
Re: Mine were posted on the trades page recently -- paula Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick Post Reply
10/08/2012, 22:28:51

Hi Paula,

Your composition beads depict the Takarabune, or Treasures of the Gods:

"Hat of Invisibility = Kakuregasa 隠れ笠, and Cloak of Invisibility (Lucky Raincoat) = Kakuremino 隠れ蓑. Allows one to perform good deeds without being seen.
Robe of Feathers = Hagoromo 羽衣. A long loose flowing garment giving one the gift of flight. Attribute of Benzaiten.
Magic Mallet, Mallet of Good Fortune = Uchide no Kozuchi 打出の小槌. Brings forth money when struck against an object or when shaken. Common attribute of Daikokuten.
Bag of Fortune = Nunobukuro 布袋 (lit. cloth bag). Includes an inexhaustible cache of treasures, including food and drink. Common attribute of Hotei.
Never-Empty Purse or Moneybag = Kanabukuro 金袋. Bag of unlimited wealth, prosperity & fortune.
Key to Divine Treasure House = Kagi 鍵. The treasure house is symbolized by the stupa (pagoda) held by Bishamonten.
Rolls of Brocade = Orimono 織物. Scarves and clothing were considered treasures in ancient times and used in various rituals. Not sure of its meaning here.
Scrolls of Wisdom & Longevity = Makimono 巻物. Common attributes of Jurōjin and Fukurokuju, who are said to be two different manifestations of a single deity (the god of wisdom and longevity)."

More details in Chiba Reiko's book (pp. 9-12).

http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/seven.shtml

Good luck,

Frederick

Modified by Frederick at Tue, Oct 09, 2012, 02:08:52

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Reference material:
Re: Treasures of the Gods, the Takarabune: -- Frederick Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick Post Reply
10/08/2012, 22:36:02

See "Legend in Japanese Art" by Henri L. Joly, page 511.

Frederick

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