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Not a bead....but
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Posted by: TASART Post Reply
09/08/2012, 15:17:42

any thoughts?
Has cool inset cane slices, sorry for picture quality

glass.jpg (159.8 KB)  


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Itallian bottle from 1490s on?
Re: Not a bead....but -- TASART Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: jake@nomaddesign Post Reply
09/08/2012, 17:11:44



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My guess is that it's much older than 1940
Re: Itallian bottle from 1490s on? -- jake@nomaddesign Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Judy Post Reply
09/08/2012, 22:52:15

If you could look on the bottom the pontil should tell you something. Is the pontil polished or cut and rough? It is a blown glass pot and my thought is that it could be a shipwreck bottle, it does appear to have been excavated. It is interesting in that it is fairly crudely made, the top is uneven and the glass looks fairly heavy, but the detail, that looks like a slice of a chevron cane, is lovely and I would expect to see that type of detail on a finer pot. Do you know the height? Is it small? The longer I look at it the more curious it becomes. Do you know what it is or are you hoping someone can tell you? I'm just giving my thoughts as I look at it I don't know what it is. Very interesting.



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yes, it appears to be much older
Re: My guess is that it's much older than 1940 -- Judy Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: TASART Post Reply
09/09/2012, 08:05:06

it is currently being offered in an Israeli auction, here is a partial description:

"A TRANSLUCENT GLASS JAR DECORATED
WITH FLOWERS
5th-6th century CE. Brown rim and collar on the
neck. With an ancient crack at the body. In good
condition and very rare. 8.4 cm. high."

PS I think the Rosetta like slices are really wonderful

glass-w-descript.jpg (114.3 KB)  


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I have to stick...We have seen two hundred year old devitrified, and calcified glass.Even younger...
Re: yes, it appears to be much older -- TASART Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: jake@nomaddesign Post Reply
09/09/2012, 08:37:18



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Nice object. Too bad it can't talk.
Re: My guess is that it's much older than 1940 -- Judy Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: karavanserai Post Reply
09/09/2012, 08:27:22

martine

Modified by karavanserai at Sun, Sep 09, 2012, 08:30:11

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Sorry Judy, did you mean 1490 or 1940?
Re: My guess is that it's much older than 1940 -- Judy Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Jake@nomaddesign Post Reply
09/09/2012, 09:02:24



Modified by Jake@nomaddesign at Sun, Sep 09, 2012, 09:04:52

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OMG! am I getting dyslexic? I misread the date, many apologies.
Re: Sorry Judy, did you mean 1490 or 1940? -- Jake@nomaddesign Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Judy Post Reply
09/09/2012, 14:01:22



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No I am detting gyslexic.
Re: OMG! am I getting dyslexic? I misread the date, many apologies. -- Judy Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Jake@nomaddesign Post Reply
09/09/2012, 14:50:42



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Judy and Jake are right to be suspicious...
Re: Not a bead....but -- TASART Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Joyce Post Reply
09/09/2012, 08:54:00

The slices are so randomly placed on the crude little vase...

The vase or jar could be much much newer than the rosetta cane slices...if you're counting the yellow core as a layer, the slices are 7''s......hmmm...remembering one of our informants telling me some time ago that popular practice for aging fakes is to secure them into a net in peaceful tidepools (Syrian coastline) for a couple of years...



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Any conclusion Thomas?
Re: Not a bead....but -- TASART Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: jake@nomaddesign Post Reply
09/22/2012, 22:33:21



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Archaeological Center Tel Aviv
Re: Not a bead....but -- TASART Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Will Post Reply
09/23/2012, 11:29:27

Hi everyone,

Sorry, I missed this thread before. This bottle is listed in an auction at the Archaeological Center in Tel Aviv on October 4. I'm really doubtful about it, because I haven't seen anything like it before, but these auctions are usually quite reliable. Robert Deutsch, who runs them, knows his stuff; he has good sources among some of the better Israeli collections; and his regular clientele seem for the most part to be very knowledgeable. That said, I've seen occasional mistakes with attributions, but those occur with any dealer or auction house.

If this bottle is authentic (which, as I said, I rather doubt), it would be very rare and worth a good deal more than the starting bid.

I'm wondering if Yankee has any thoughts about it.

Cheers,

Will



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Thanks Will,
Re: Archaeological Center Tel Aviv -- Will Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Joyce Post Reply
09/23/2012, 11:49:03

Great to "see" you!
The catalog entry:

"200
A TRANSLUCENT GLASS JAR DECORATED
WITH FLOWERS
5th-6th century CE. Brown rim and collar on the
neck. With an ancient crack at the body. In good
condition and very rare. 8.4 cm. high.
Estimate: $ 1,600 – 1,800"

Only 10 points for the star mold....and optic molds were not used nearly so early, at least I didn't think so....?



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I think it original. The antimony in some ancient opaque white is more soluble than clear glass.
Re: Thanks Will, -- Joyce Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Jake@nomaddesign Post Reply
09/23/2012, 18:55:31

Clear glass has less compounds to decompose. Very often as in this piece, you can note the devitrified white, while other colors are almost unaffected such as copper red, or manganese, cobalt, iron black. I bet Art would know quite a lot more?


Related link: Yale glass
Modified by Jake@nomaddesign at Sun, Sep 23, 2012, 22:13:02

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White almost always goes first, even on 100 year old Venetian fancies....
Re: I think it original. The antimony in some ancient opaque white is more soluble than clear glass. -- Jake@nomaddesign Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Joyce Post Reply
09/23/2012, 23:11:52

But the easy answer (for Somebody out there!) is when did optic molds get used first for star cane? And the vessel can't be older than that.

Nice link, Jake!



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Jamey thinks it is a repro!........Thanks Jamey
Re: White almost always goes first, even on 100 year old Venetian fancies.... -- Joyce Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: jake@nomaddesign Post Reply
09/24/2012, 00:47:55

Hello Jake. Since Venetians (probably Angelo Baroviero) invented star-bead glass in the mid-15th century, this vessel cannot be older than from that time. Nevertheless, the vessel does not have the qualities associated with Venetian glass from Medieval times. I think it has to be a fake--and a modern fake at that. Jamey547c4c6f



Modified by jake@nomaddesign at Mon, Sep 24, 2012, 01:09:32

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