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What period these amber bead belong to?
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Posted by: stone Post Reply
08/05/2012, 21:13:17

The last few years,there were a large number of this kind of amber bead appeared on China's antique market.Businessmen said that this kind of amber bead came from Mesopotamia and were very old.

Who can tell me what period these amber bead belong to on the earth?Thank you.

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Re: What period these amber bead belong to?
Re: What period these amber bead belong to? -- stone Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: stone Post Reply
08/05/2012, 21:14:58

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Re: Re: What period these amber bead belong to?
Re: Re: What period these amber bead belong to? -- stone Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: stone Post Reply
08/05/2012, 21:16:32

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Many of these look like phenolic resin and not old at all
Re: What period these amber bead belong to? -- stone Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carl Dreibelbis Post Reply
08/06/2012, 06:00:51



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Pressed amber
Re: What period these amber bead belong to? -- stone Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
08/06/2012, 08:12:24

Some of your beads display the reddish color a network of fine surface cracks characteristic of amber that has been out of the ground for many decades.

That said, one always has to ask who processed the amber, for sale to whom. Was the amber simply mined and carved, or was it run through a hydraulic press to give it a more uniform appearance? Pressed amber was very popular and widespread for beads, pipe stems, umbrella handles, knobs and finials. Pressed amber ages comparatively quickly - I've seen beads from the 1920s that are covered by a network of fine cracks.

When you say the origin of your beads is "Mesopotamia" - do you mean the country Turkey and surrounding countries?

p.63 of the book Amber by Helen Fraquet quotes a 19th century baltic amber manufacturer:

In 1874:
"Yellow amber cut in facets or simply in beads for bracelets and necklaces was in fashion some years ago. At the present day is is chiefly used in the East by the Turks, Egyptians, Arabs, Persians and the natives of India, to ornament their pipes, arms, the saddles and bridles of their horses. In Europe it is still used for the mouthpieces of pipes."

So late 19th century would be a good starting date, then examination to determine which of the beads might be pressed amber, which would indicate a date after the 1880s. Another quote from p.63:

"Between 600 and 700 hundredweight of pressed amber is now produced annually (1904)... It is used chiefly in the manufacture of cheap articles for the use of smokers, and recently in the manufacture of beads for exportation to Africa."

Amber imitations have been around since the 1880s, and phenolic and acrylic resins captured much of the market after their invention in the early 20th century.

So the sequence of identification might be: Amber or imitation? Pressed amber? Heated or unheated amber?

There are amber experts out there, some of them read this list, and if you have a collection that requires appraisal, it might be worth the fee to hire one of these people.


Related link: http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0408030801/ref=dp_olp_all_mbc?ie=UTF8&condition=all

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Camel bridles
Re: Pressed amber -- beadiste Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
08/06/2012, 08:32:13

Here's a picture of beads in camel trappings, in Rajasthan, India.

I do not mean to imply the beads in the picture are amber. Just an illustration of such things the amber manufacturer's quote in my previous reply might have been referring to.

PushkarCamel04.jpg (155.4 KB)  


Modified by beadiste at Mon, Aug 06, 2012, 08:34:41

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Chibouk or parasol handle
Re: What period these amber bead belong to? -- stone Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
08/06/2012, 09:34:11

One of the items in your picture fits this use.

Amber was widely believed to have antiseptic and medicinal properties, hence its use in smoking accessories, and parasol handles for arthritic hands. It's also conveniently light weight.


Related link: http://www.artvalue.com/auctionresult--ottoman-empire-19-chibouk-2520463.htm

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Another Ottoman chibouk mouthpiece
Re: Chibouk or parasol handle -- beadiste Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
08/06/2012, 09:37:53


Related link: http://www.trocadero.com/thecuriosityshop/items/1093277/item1093277store.html#item

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Beautiful chibouk in Kaliningrad website
Re: Another Ottoman chibouk mouthpiece -- beadiste Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
08/07/2012, 08:53:48

...seems very similar to piece in stone's collection.

chibouk.jpg (140.8 KB)  

Related link: http://www.kaliningrad.mid.ru/0img/foto/3-302.jpg

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And don't miss the slide show
Re: Beautiful chibouk in Kaliningrad website -- beadiste Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
08/07/2012, 09:00:02

The amber as well as the artistry are worth examining closely - be sure to click on of the small pictures and watch the slide show of larger images.


Related link: http://www.kaliningrad.mid.ru/eng/media/index.html

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Last one, I swear
Re: Chibouk or parasol handle -- beadiste Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
08/07/2012, 10:07:25

The point has been made, I think.

chibouk1.jpg (19.2 KB)  

Related link: http://elogedelart.canalblog.com/archives/2009/03/22/13088966.html

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And tesbih, of course
Re: What period these amber bead belong to? -- stone Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
08/06/2012, 09:49:13

One of your beads is definitely the long bead from a prayer bead strand.



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Re: And tesbih, of course
Re: And tesbih, of course -- beadiste Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
08/06/2012, 10:01:28

Guess I forgot to add the images link to the last post. The search was Google images for "tesbih amber."

http://snipurl.com/24kj9ye


Related link: http://snipurl.com/24kj9ye
Modified by beadiste at Mon, Aug 06, 2012, 10:02:59

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Ottoman tesbih
Re: And tesbih, of course -- beadiste Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
08/07/2012, 09:51:49

A very nice example

tesbih-sergisi-neyhanede-medium-0_(1).jpg (8948 bytes)  

Related link: http://www.milligazete.com.tr/haber/tesbih-sergisi-neyhanede-136224.htm

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Amber floats
Re: What period these amber bead belong to? -- stone Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: waneeho Post Reply
08/06/2012, 12:30:50

Hello Stone
Although it is not 100% reliable, you can try the salt water floatation test on your beads. Stir salt into warm water until the salt won't dissolve any more and begins to settle out on the bottom (2.5 tablespoons to a cup should do it) - you are creating a saturated solution. Put the beads in one at a time. If they float, they are most likely amber or copal. However there are a few plastic-based fake amber beads which do float. On the other hand, if they sink, you can be relatively sure they are NOT amber. Some other BCN members may want to comment on this, but if most of your beads sink in salt water, they are most likely not amber, but some sort of imitation. Paul



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I agree with Carl, they look fairly new and do not have the organic look of real amber
Re: Amber floats -- waneeho Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: judy Post Reply
08/06/2012, 21:05:21



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The 4 or 5 pieces of smoking paraphenalia...
Re: I agree with Carl, they look fairly new and do not have the organic look of real amber -- judy Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
08/07/2012, 08:41:00

...indicate that these pieces may have been manufactured over a century ago, in the late 1800s. WWI greatly interrupted trade in this region, did it not? And after WWI, plastics started to gain ascendency, especially German plastics designed to imitate amber.

The 2 large tubes, the three large oval mouthpieces are what I see as pieces originally made for pipes.

The likelihood of their being pressed amber is high...but pressed amber is still amber.



Modified by beadiste at Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 08:42:58

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UV light
Re: Amber floats -- waneeho Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
08/07/2012, 09:44:15

A hand-held UV light is often a quick way to sort amber - it fluoresces, often to blue.

Not fool-proof, as the fluorescence decreases with the length of time the amber has been out of the ground.

But quicker and less messy than a vat of saturated salt solution.



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The beads in the bracelet are amber from a Mandarin Court Necklace.
Re: What period these amber bead belong to? -- stone Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick Post Reply
08/07/2012, 00:02:57

Because of my experience, based upon the color, size and shape of the beads in the bracelet: they are Qing Dynasty amber beads from a Mandarin Court Necklace. However, most of the large beads in the big photo look like phenolic resin...Sleuthing is part of the enjoyable challenge of shopping in China. And reaching a decision concerning amber using only a photograph is risky.

To answer the question —as asked: "On Earth, I believe that the amber beads in the bracelet belong to the the Mandarin Chinese from the Qing dynasty, 1644-1912."

Frederick

Modified by Frederick at Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 10:36:17

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Because...
Re: The beads in the bracelet are amber from a Mandarin Court Necklace. -- Frederick Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
08/07/2012, 09:41:55

They might be Burmite?
Size?
Roundness?
Polish?
Color matching?
Purchased in China?



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Follow the link to pix
Re: The beads in the bracelet are amber from a Mandarin Court Necklace. -- Frederick Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
08/07/2012, 10:05:28


Related link: http://elogedelart.canalblog.com/archives/2010/11/15/19614462.html

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"butterscotch" amber, possible mix
Re: What period these amber bead belong to? -- stone Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Joyce Post Reply
08/07/2012, 06:14:51

To my eye, from the photo, there seems to be a lot of genuine amber here. If I were to float all of these in brine, as explained by another forum member here, I believe that I would end up with a nice lot of amber beads - mostly the small strung strands. There is likely some phenolic here, of course.



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