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History of Djenne Dig Beads post
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Posted by: PuppyLoveJewelry Post Reply
08/02/2012, 20:04:31

I am also having trouble using the search tool on this forum (just saw a post from someone else having trouble, asking for instructions). I am hunting for a post I saw a couple of weeks ago about Djenne dig beads, do they all truly come from Djenne, Mali and are the newer multicolored strands showing up authentic or not....

No matter what I search I cannot find this post- Help! :)

Also, do people think these newer strands with the multiple colors are fakes (ones like ebay item #190709518884). It seems that most of the ones people are sure to be authentic come in pretty blues and greens and the newer multi colored strands showed up recently. (?) opinions?

I am in LOVE with this kind of bead: Nila, Roman Glass, Islamic Glass, Dig, Djenne...I think I am forgetting a few other names I have stumbled across for these gems. Know of any more? It helps me to google for them. I recently got and now constantly wear a gorgeous strand of blues from a very nice ebay seller (who sent me to this forum to learn) and I am on the hunt for more strands with vivid color, especially the blues but also the greens.

Thank you all for your help!
peace,
marjorie



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Re: History of Djenne Dig Beads post
Re: History of Djenne Dig Beads post -- PuppyLoveJewelry Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: PuppyLoveJewelry Post Reply
08/02/2012, 20:24:50

Someone posted a great search strategy of going to google, entering your search term (in my case Djenne dig beads) with a coma and then : site beadcollector.net. worked like a charm! this is the post I was hunting for, for anyone whose interest I sparked:

http://www.beadcollector.com/openforum/posts/27647.html



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Re: Re: History of Djenne Dig Beads post
Re: Re: History of Djenne Dig Beads post -- PuppyLoveJewelry Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Austin Cooper Post Reply
08/04/2012, 08:41:08

From archived post: (Evelyn, 04/09/2005) located at:

http://www.beadcollector.com/openforum/posts/27647.html

vi) Two fragments of a pale-blue translucent eye bead with a dense white opaque 'eye' and slightly darker 'pupil', measuring 8 x 13 mm and a 3 mm perforation. The fragments were found in a layer of loamy sand and ash, and dated to 300 - 800 CE. Chemical properties were found to be consistent with typical Roman glass that was made with natron, its additive level of antimony suggesting Italian or Egyptian origins.

__________

From what small about of EDX work that I have done on these "pale-blue translucent eye bead with a dense white opaque 'eye' and slightly darker 'pupil', the ratios of antimony (Sb), cobalt (Co), and to a lesser extent copper (Cu), are more consistent with the glass whose origin is generally accepted as Fustat. Roman glasses have the same elements; however, the ratios are different; and in many cases, Roman glasses, of similar color(s), also have a lead (Pb) and tin (Sn) signatures in the EDX spectra that far overshadow those of the Fustat samples. I share Evelyn’s positon, “It is not my intention to open old feuds, or to begin new controversies.”

For those who may be interested, I have posted some articles at the following location:

http://btralabama.org/html/articles/

Thanks
Austin



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Thanks, Austin
Re: Re: Re: History of Djenne Dig Beads post -- Austin Cooper Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
08/04/2012, 09:24:15

I love it when someone posts materials analysis data - the molecules do often tell an interesting story, don't they?

Maybe someday we'll all have desktop LIBS machines - wouldn't that be fun?

Off to read those articles of yours...



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Fabulous post! Thanks Austin.
Re: Re: Re: History of Djenne Dig Beads post -- Austin Cooper Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: jake@nomaddesign Post Reply
08/04/2012, 11:04:09



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Re: Re: Re: History of Djenne Dig Beads post
Re: Re: Re: History of Djenne Dig Beads post -- Austin Cooper Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: PuppyLoveJewelry Post Reply
08/04/2012, 14:10:29

Hello Austin and thank you so much for offering an educated opinion and giving me a nice link full of reference articles so I can better educate myself about these beautiful treasures. I deeply appreciate the value of the chemical glass analysis to help tell the story of these beads. Science is not perfect, but it gives so much concrete food for thought that really helps steer us down the right road. I am quite used to thinking in these concrete, evidence based terms, having sat in science classrooms for about half of my life! I appreciate the opinion and the teaching that the articles will give :)
peace,
marjorie



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So are these "Djenne" Dig Beads Real or Fake?
Re: History of Djenne Dig Beads post -- PuppyLoveJewelry Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: PuppyLoveJewelry Post Reply
08/05/2012, 12:28:54

Real or Fake?

They seem to exhibit that lean to one side (I think its called slumping?), the sizes vary but the color seems so uniform and a bit different than other strands I have seen- makes me wonder.

The person is selling these as "GENUINE ROMAN ANCIENT BLUE GLASS BEADS - OLD 3RD-4TH CENTURY AD". The Moldavite in the shop appears real and fairly priced to me- I can usually tell after seeings so much fake moldavite at the gem show.


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Here are more pix of these Nila beads with other beads she is selling:

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And I was also interested in these, being sold as "5 ANCIENT BEADS AGATE GENUINE ROMAN - BEADS OLD - 1RD-3TH CENTURY AD"

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And finally, she is selling these as "Genuine Chevron Beads Drawn Layered Glass - 19th Century"' Except that these look like the same nila beads almost, don't they, just with stripes painted on them?...To me the stripes do not appear to come from layering of a star mold the way I have learned they come about on a chevron.

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Any opinions on authenticity would be deeply appreciated....don't want to be taken ;)

Thank you and happy Sunday!

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Modified by PuppyLoveJewelry at Sun, Aug 05, 2012, 12:36:11

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Striped beads
Re: So are these "Djenne" Dig Beads Real or Fake? -- PuppyLoveJewelry Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Floorkasp Post Reply
08/05/2012, 13:48:21

The striped beads have nothing to do with chevron beads, as there is not a trace of star molding in sight. I could be wrong, but they look an awful lot like beads that are currently coming out of Indonesia. They come in plain colours and striped, and they were for sale at Tucson for 2 dollars a strand. I bought, among other colours, these blue striped ones. They are interesting to use in jewelry because of their irregularity, but they are not old at all. The stripes are probably made in the same way stripes are made on for example seed beads; by adding several strips to the outside of the piece of glass before pulling it into a long tube that can be made into seed beads.

Don't know enough about the other beads to ID them. They look like some of the nila beads I have. However, presuming I am right about the striped beads, I would be hesitant to buy from this seller unless I was very sure of what I was buying myself..



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Re: Striped beads
Re: Striped beads -- Floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: PuppyLoveJewelry Post Reply
08/05/2012, 14:32:11

Thank you for stopping in to give me a more experienced opinion. I tend to feel cautious and suspicious too. The Nila beads just look so close to ones I have here at home too in terms of there shape (rounded side, flat side, some leaning or slumping, wide variation in size). If they are fakes, this is bad news because they are pretty darn good as far as I can tell in their form at least.

The seller is questionable. I asked her how I could feel confident about the beads authenticity and the answer was very weak in my opinion- about how she only buys from ebay powersellers with thousands of positive feedback points and also travels herself to buy.

I just want some nice rich blue translucent Djennes so bad! :(

BTW, I am horrified at who is qualified to be a top rated powerseller on ebay! I have this status and always thought it was a fairly good sign of an honest hard working merchant however I have recently realized that if a dishonest seller sells in massive bulk- numerous ebay transactions, thousands and thousands, that even if dozens of people are unhappy and leave bad feedback because of percentages and how they work the seller can still stay in good standing. That is awful I think. I also saw a woman who left abusive comments after her customers feedback...she did it 5 or 6 times and still remained a top rated powerseller! Making fun of your customers? That is not a top rated seller in my book.

There is so much fraud and dishonesty on ebay that I am honestly embarrassed sometimes to sell there. They are very good at helping with protection from scary buyers, and very good and getting stuff out there and seen, so I am trapped for now.

I used to sell on Etsy until a woman begged me for a deep discount on a pendant supposedly as a gift for a sick person, took it apart to figure out my design and then began making her own pendants with my design and selling them on Etsy. I was so hurt and sick over it. Etsy did not protect me at all and there was clear documented evidence for them to work with. Too bad, because Etsy looks like such a classy venue compared to ebay. I love their look.

But the pigs gotta eat! haha! Organic vegetables for a herd of 11 guinea pigs every day gets expensive ;) Not to mention Cecil the husky and his ability to snarf down a bag of treats in a day.

Have a nice Sunday and thank you again for weighing in.
peace,
marjorie



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