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Interesting Tircul fake
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Posted by: jake@nomaddesign Post Reply
07/04/2012, 12:11:30

Hi all~

I purchased this bead off ebay for a lowly amount. With Tiger Tiger Matt's discussion and prompting I discovered the supposed fused portion is actually inlaid plastic! To bad, it is a beautiful carnelian.

Pyu_II.jpg (76.7 KB)  


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Re: Tircul (Pyu) fakes
Re: Interesting Tircul fake -- jake@nomaddesign Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: will Post Reply
07/05/2012, 11:14:04

Hi Jake,

Plastic! That's amazing. I've never heard of that "technique" before. I actually was watching this bead, too, not because the "etching" was so convincing, but because I thought it might be an authentic bead with an inlaid design (though I haven't seen that technique on carnelian so far, only on agate). Anyway, I didn't bid on it finally because the ends looked wrong, but if I had known the lines were actually filled with plastic I probably would have done - just to add to my own little gallery of fakes.

I don't quite understand why, but in the last two or three years there has been an enormous upsurge in fake Tircul (Pyu) beads, and sometimes amulets, on eBay and other sites. The reason I put Pyu in the title here was in the faint hope that some of the buyers of these fakes might come to the forum to educate themselves with regard to what they were purchasing. Here is the # for one such item: 170871989538. This seller from Thailand does a pretty good business selling these pseudo-etched beads as well as figural glass and stone copies of ancient Tircul beads. He/she also sells a few pieces that look as though they might be genuine, but why should anybody in their right mind bother taking the risk? And now there are signs that other sellers from Thailand are catching on to the recognition that there's the possibility of a thriving market here, so I expect we'll see even more of these things turning up in the future.

And then there are the people (mainly from the US but also from France) who throw the "Pyu" tag into their headings for vintage or recent Pumteks, presumably in the hope that it will add to their credibility. It seems to be working too.

One bright note is that Jan (mosquitobay) has recently been selling some nice authentic Tircul beads on eBay at very reasonable prices. Thank heavens for honest dealers!

All the best,

Will



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Re: Re: Tircul (Pyu) fakes
Re: Re: Tircul (Pyu) fakes -- will Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: tigertiger Post Reply
07/11/2012, 22:27:54

*Somewhere* I have a whole bunch of 'convincing' fakes (black, round beads) with the inlaid plastic which i picked up in Bangkok a few years ago, i, too covet interesting fakes and frauds! (run on sentence!)



Modified by tigertiger at Wed, Jul 11, 2012, 22:28:38

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Re: Interesting Tircul fake
Re: Interesting Tircul fake -- jake@nomaddesign Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: karavanserai Post Reply
07/06/2012, 15:01:00

Well this is another one to add to the 'fake' list. In the end this list on faking techniques will become longer than the one of genuine authentic techniques.
Thanks for letting us know.

martine

Modified by karavanserai at Fri, Jul 06, 2012, 15:17:01

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Re: Interesting Tircul fake
Re: Interesting Tircul fake -- jake@nomaddesign Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Anne0135 Post Reply
07/07/2012, 02:13:00

You know, it's still a beautiful bead. Do you think the dealers know they are fakes? Do you think the typical buyer cares? Just curios. After a;;. isnt that why all fakes prosper? If people can't afford the real thing, they buy fakes and today it takes a real expert to tell the difference.



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Re: Re: Interesting Tircul fake
Re: Re: Interesting Tircul fake -- Anne0135 Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: karavanserai Post Reply
07/07/2012, 09:03:27

You've got a point Anne, but I still would like them to call a spade a spade, and it often does not take long before misrepresentation goes hand in hand with phenomenal prices....
And yes buy a bead because you like it, fake or no fake, but pay accordingly. It is the same with antique furniture, ethnic items... you should get the quality you are paying for.
And a fake bead can indeed still be a beautiful bead. I fully agree.
For me the faking/copying techniques themselves in general are very interesting on their own. It shows resourcefulness and sometimes great craftmanship.

martine

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I agree, though the bead was not advertised as a reproduction.
Re: Re: Re: Interesting Tircul fake -- karavanserai Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: jake@nomaddesign Post Reply
07/07/2012, 09:53:03

I have absolutely nothing against reproducing historical beads, it is misinformation that bothers me. Knowledge is of course our best ally, and I posted to inform.



Modified by jake@nomaddesign at Sat, Jul 07, 2012, 21:18:08

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Re: I agree, though the bead was not advertised as a reproduction.
Re: I agree, though the bead was not advertised as a reproduction. -- jake@nomaddesign Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: bonpo Post Reply
07/14/2012, 02:59:16

I am not sure if these are authentic, but I got these from a seller on ebay.(maybe the same one from Thailand) at a reasonable price. the hole seems to be too large..

RIMG1093-001.JPG (101.2 KB)  RIMG1091-001.JPG (135.9 KB)  


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Ancient buried stone beads are extraordinarily difficult to identify.....
Re: Re: I agree, though the bead was not advertised as a reproduction. -- bonpo Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: jake@nomaddesign Post Reply
07/16/2012, 22:54:34

they can come out of the ground thousands of years later in exactly the condition as when then they where originally buried! Very different than ancient burial glass beads, or heirloom beads. So many different types of analysis come into play in identifying ancient burial stone beads. One must handle many, many authentic ancient stone beads; constantly look for a fakers ignorance, laziness, or misplaced technology. looking for incorrect tool marks, looking for the correct type of wear indicator, the exact correct type of style for the era.

That said, I think your beads are authentic, I do not think the perforations are large, actually at that time small perforations where more difficult. I am sure Will, Jan, or Matt would have more useful information.

A not so interesting side note: I have noticed that most of the e-bay beads sold directly out of Thailand, and China are fake(BCN contributers excepted). I often, and generally speaking notice the dealers selling ancient beads directed out of Afghanistan, Canada, EU, Germany, Mauritania, Pakistan, Singapore, UK etc.. are more typically authentic.



Modified by jake@nomaddesign at Tue, Jul 17, 2012, 00:47:30

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thank you Jake. I will take account what you have said
Re: Ancient buried stone beads are extraordinarily difficult to identify..... -- jake@nomaddesign Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: bonpo Post Reply
07/17/2012, 16:59:57



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Re: Interesting Tircul fake
Re: Interesting Tircul fake -- jake@nomaddesign Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: bond_fan Post Reply
01/16/2013, 17:21:03

Anyone know how to contact Anita Mui, as I have lost contact with her and messages through the forum to her came back as undeliverable?

I'm an old friend of hers.

Thanks!
Tim



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