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hand made african glass beads
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Posted by: alex Post Reply
03/30/2012, 10:26:06

Any ideas?
They came from Africa ( unknown region ) during the 1950s.
Total about 80.
Hand ground, all hand drilled from each side.
The large ones are made from very crude glass with bubbles and inclusions.
The hexagonal beads are of good quality glass.
The smaller beads appear to be made out of a good quality glass spheres about the size of a marble.
Any information would be appreciated, even a guess!
Thank you Alex

Photo0134_001.jpg (35.8 KB)  


Modified by alex at Fri, Mar 30, 2012, 13:45:44

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Re: hand made african glass beads
Re: hand made african glass beads -- alex Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Joyce Post Reply
03/30/2012, 17:45:16

Hi,
Some of these resemble newer glass beads from Java. I don't know of any drilled glass beads from Africa that look like this. I can see the bead top left drilled from opposing ends, not quite meeting in the middle. There are recycled bottle glass beads that were made in Nigeria that were drilled, and sometimes you can tell they were made from pieces of the bottom of the bottle.Those are the only drilled recycled glass beads made in Africa that I can think of.



Modified by Joyce at Fri, Mar 30, 2012, 17:47:56

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yes definitely Indonesian as Joyce recognised!
Re: hand made african glass beads -- alex Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Stefany Post Reply
03/30/2012, 18:10:23



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New Javanese recycled glass
Re: hand made african glass beads -- alex Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Fred Post Reply
03/30/2012, 18:37:39

I have seen beads like these cheaply in Bali. They have carried them since I started going there in 1999. They are said to be made in Java of recycled glass from bottles, automobile and other window panes.



Modified by Fred at Fri, Mar 30, 2012, 20:39:20

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I remember them being sold as glass from "recycled televsions" too. Javanese.
Re: New Javanese recycled glass -- Fred Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carl Dreibelbis Post Reply
03/30/2012, 20:49:38



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Re: New Javanese recycled glass
Re: New Javanese recycled glass -- Fred Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Russ Nobbs Post Reply
03/30/2012, 22:31:38

One time in Bali I purchased some of these new Javanese so-called recycled glass in various colors that were sticky. I assumed it was the hot, humid climate. When the beads arrived in the states I learned they were coated with some sort of dye or colored coating that we had to wash off and sell as nearly clear glass beads.



Modified by Russ Nobbs at Fri, Mar 30, 2012, 22:32:00

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Thanks
Re: hand made african glass beads -- alex Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: alex Post Reply
03/31/2012, 01:49:16

Yes I would go with recycled glass for the big beads. The smaller beads have certainly be made from a glass sphere as I can see the shiny surface at the corners of the bead. I have tried to show this in the photo, plus one of my favorites where the maker drilled nearly all the way through from both sides before he finaly met up. I am certain they came from Africa in the 1950s although they may have originated elswhere. Thank you again. Alex

100_5818.JPG (98.4 KB)  


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Curious
Re: Thanks -- alex Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: floorkasp Post Reply
03/31/2012, 04:38:30

I am curious what makes you so sure they came from Africa in the 1950's?
To most here, including me, they look like they came from Indonesia, and are at most 20 years old. Obviously, we may be missing something, it always is hard to tell from a picture.
So if you are absolutely sure they are older, it is interesting. Maybe it is possible they got mixed up with a set of older African beads, though?



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thanks again
Re: Curious -- floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: alex Post Reply
03/31/2012, 05:48:57

I bought them all for less than 8 from a lady whose grandfather had worked in Africa. He bought them back in the 1950s. He told her that they were considered valuable by the local tribes people. I see no reason to doubt her story. I collect beads based on how much I like them and I realy like these. There are several things about them that make me curious as to their origin. The amount of work that has gone into grinding and drilling the large ones only to end up with very crude shapes. The medium hexagonal ones are very neatly made. The way the smaller ones have been made from glass spheres, and the range of different glass that they have been made from. Very interesting. Thank you for all the help



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maybe "mcbead" (see the trades page) should compare with these ?
Re: hand made african glass beads -- alex Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Stefany Post Reply
03/31/2012, 09:43:08



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Re: maybe you should say which ones you think are similar ?
Re: maybe "mcbead" (see the trades page) should compare with these ? -- Stefany Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Will Post Reply
03/31/2012, 12:20:27



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McBead's image of an old strand
Re: Re: maybe you should say which ones you think are similar ? -- Will Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Joyce Post Reply
03/31/2012, 13:06:10

Here are the old ones McBead shows. For me, it is truly very hard to tell new repros from ancient/antique beads of this type from images alone.

Every now and then, I delete trades page offerings older than 30 days, except for "media" ones. This one is due, but will leave it for now, since we are discussing these types here.

jatstr0045bead.jpg (75.8 KB)  


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They don't look very similar to me:
Re: McBead's image of an old strand -- Joyce Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Will Post Reply
03/31/2012, 15:34:14

The glass for a start; the colours; the perforations; almost certainly the structure, the method of manufacture. Though the photo isn't very clear, Max's (McBead's) beads have a completely different feel to me.

These drilled beads of Alex's, which are being churned out in Indonesia as we speak, have been drilled from opposite ends to create an impression of age because someone has told the guys who make them that that is how ancient stone beads were made - which in many cases was correct. But of course, as we all know, it's not the way a whole lot of ancient glass beads were made. So, right from the start, they're not very good or convincing fakes, especially in comparison to the brilliant copies of mosaic beads that the better craftsmen in East Java are producing - now they really are difficult to distinguish from the real thing.

All the best,

Will



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Agreed
Re: They don't look very similar to me: -- Will Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: floorkasp Post Reply
04/01/2012, 02:23:28

I do not think the Indonesian 'recycled glass beads' are intended as fakes or replicas. I think they just stand on their own, and through the technique, some resemble the ancient beads. As you say, the Indonesians are very good at making replicas, and these are just something different.

Having seen quite a few of McBeads beads up close at their shop, they are clearly very different to me than the ones Alex is showing.

I think somewhere the story of them being from Africa, 50 years ago, got mixed up with these beads.



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Photos for reference.
Re: Agreed -- floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: alex Post Reply
04/01/2012, 09:31:47

Thanks for all the help.
I have uploaded some better photos for reference.
The first photo is the small round engraved.
The second photo is of the large crude recycled glass beads.

100_5821.jpg (111.6 KB)  100_5826.jpg (163.2 KB)  


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Re: Photos for reference.
Re: Photos for reference. -- alex Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: alex Post Reply
04/01/2012, 09:33:49

First photo large hexagonal
Second photo small hexagonal made from glass spheres
Thanks again

100_5823-001.jpg (149.3 KB)  100_5830.jpg (64.4 KB)  


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Re: Re: Folk lore vs. facts
Re: Re: Photos for reference. -- alex Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Anne0135 Post Reply
04/02/2012, 10:27:28

Africa, 50 years ago? Even I would say 'no'. Given what I've learned on here plus seeing enough antique beads it would have been very hard to make those beads in Africa 50 years ago. The glass is too clear, the cuts are too clean, hexigons? What tool would do that so evenly and on such a large scale? In my very humble opinion, it really just doesnt add up. PLEASE EXPERTS CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG!

I do deal with a lot of African beads. Joyce AND Stephany on here are true experts on beads like this. Tasert on gemstones, Russ, Will- I mean these people really know what they are talking about.

I've been handed a lot of estate pieces and there is the folk lore that gets handed down with the jewelery and then theres the truth. You have to be a detective, archeologist, gemologist and historian many times to know the difference. It's A LOT of work but I have come to conclude, believe only about 1% of what you hear, 50% of what you see from your seller/source (especially a civilian) but a good 80% of what you can learn on here. The other 10 percent comes from your own experience and common sense, which grows the longer you work with these things. The task can be immense.



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Alex, some of the same beads
Re: Re: Photos for reference. -- alex Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carl Dreibelbis Post Reply
04/02/2012, 11:45:39

Hi Alex,

Welcome to this great forum. Although the beads you show could have come through Africa, they were made in Java. And although the provenance said they are fifty years old, they are not. See the photos below of some of the same beads. In addition to the beads shown I had all of the shapes and sizes and the larger "bicone" shaped ones as well as all of the different color hues. The manufacture of these beads started in 1995.

Carl

156.1.jpg (91.0 KB)  174.1.jpg (109.1 KB)  


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Re: Alex, some of the same beads
Re: Alex, some of the same beads -- Carl Dreibelbis Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: alex Post Reply
04/02/2012, 14:32:53

Thank you all for all the efort that you have put in to convince me, I was convinced after the first post. I should have made this clearer. It has become a bit of a joke in my house, my wife telling the kids that if they stare into the beads they will see what was on television! I stuck the photographs up so that anyone like myself would be able to see the beads in question.
I paid very little for them (8) and I am happy with them. From now on
I will be more cynical about provenance.( although coming from the north of England I am already clinicaly cynical!)
thanks again and keep up the good work.
Thank you Alex.
ps . Carl if you want to sell those beads I am interested but I wont pay much as it is obvious they are fake!



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LOL! Good one! I too watch Television with them.
Re: Re: Alex, some of the same beads -- alex Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carl Dreibelbis Post Reply
04/02/2012, 17:41:01



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Re lol, your wife has a great sense of humor.
Re: Re: Alex, some of the same beads -- alex Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Anne0135 Post Reply
04/04/2012, 11:56:19



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