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SHARING is CARING...:)
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Posted by: dreamfeat Post Reply
01/08/2012, 15:56:24

I have to admit I am feeling a tad bit spoiled, and was shocked to say the least that I received these for Christmas. One Lucky Girl...:)Of course I know very little about these beads, but after seeing the price tags I hope they are authentic, they came from a personal collection of a man my Dad bought from over a 20 year period. I apologize ahead of time for the spelling of his name, Mohammadu Drame, whom I believe has since retired somewhere in LA. Enjoy:) I have been avidly researching them since. Any input or information as always is greatly appreciated!~Anne

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Re: SHARING is CARING...:)MORE PICS
Re: SHARING is CARING...:) -- dreamfeat Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: dreamfeat Post Reply
01/08/2012, 15:57:51

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Re: Re: SHARING is CARING...:)MORE PICS3
Re: Re: SHARING is CARING...:)MORE PICS -- dreamfeat Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: dreamfeat Post Reply
01/08/2012, 15:59:04

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Re: Re: Re: SHARING is CARING...:)MORE PICS4
Re: Re: Re: SHARING is CARING...:)MORE PICS3 -- dreamfeat Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: dreamfeat Post Reply
01/08/2012, 16:00:43

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Re: Re: Re: Re: SHARING is CARING...:)MORE PICS5
Re: Re: Re: Re: SHARING is CARING...:)MORE PICS4 -- dreamfeat Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: dreamfeat Post Reply
01/08/2012, 16:01:40

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: SHARING is CARING...:)MORE PICS6
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: SHARING is CARING...:)MORE PICS5 -- dreamfeat Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: dreamfeat Post Reply
01/08/2012, 16:03:08

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: SHARING is CARING...:)MORE PICS7
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: SHARING is CARING...:)MORE PICS6 -- dreamfeat Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: dreamfeat Post Reply
01/08/2012, 16:04:22

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: SHARING is CARING...:)MORE PICS7 -- dreamfeat Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: dreamfeat Post Reply
01/08/2012, 16:06:25

I was excited that under light what appeared to be a black bead was actually blue...

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Indonesian
Re: SHARING is CARING...:) -- dreamfeat Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: floorkasp Post Reply
01/09/2012, 03:39:03

They all look like Indonesian made ancient beads, jatim, pelangi and the bird beads. I am no expert on these, but have seen a lot of them at the shop of the bead brothers in Alkmaar, the Netherlands. They are specialists on these types of beads.
From the quantity and quality, my first impression would be that if they are authentic, they would be incredibly valuable. It makes me wonder if they are more likely to be fairly recent copies (last 10 to 15 years or so)which have become increasingly difficult to tell apart from the genuine ones. The really old ones are becoming more and more rare.
Perhaps you could email the beadbrothers to see what they think? (info@beadbrothers.nl)
Especially the striped zebra (pelangi) one makes me suspicious, because of its size. It seems rather big to me.
Either way, they are gorgeous beads.


Related link: Beadrothers (in Dutch) (antieke kralen: antiques, replica's/nieuw antiek: replicas)

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Re: Indonesian
Re: Indonesian -- floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: dreamfeat Post Reply
01/09/2012, 19:44:51

Thank you for your input, I sure hope they are genuine, because my Dad spent a small fortune on them. The dealer as far as I know was reputable. I have been looking at as many picture as I can find, the colors seem to match the older authentic beads. I am no expert though and am hopeful, Jamey will send me some info soon, as he got a preview before I posted here. I will send ahead to the bead brothers as you suggested, and get their take. Thank you again for the response, all feedback is greatly appreciated:)~Anne



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Jatims
Re: SHARING is CARING...:) -- dreamfeat Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: will Post Reply
01/09/2012, 07:02:22

Hi Anne,

It looks as though you got a wonderful Christmas present and you'll have a great time investigating each and every one of them - because that is what you will have to do.

Jatims comes from Java Timor - East java - where they were made in ancient times (C5-7) and again the past twenty years or so.

It really is very difficult - even impossible some of the time - to separate the authentic from the fake on the basis of photographs. I even find it hard sometimes with a fake in one hand and the real thing in the other. But from what I can see here I think there's a good chance that at least several of your green and yellow beads and some too of the red/blue/yellow ones are genuine.

I'm pretty certain that the pelangi (rainbow) bead is a fake made in the early to mid 90s, not because of its size, as Flor suggests, which is actually not abnormal, but because of the colours and composition (it's almost certainly not all glass). I'll attach a pic of a genuine, well-provenanced one (5cm), for comparison.

Also, I'm very doubtful of the bird/sun beads. I think the white motifs might very probably have been added later to what may be an older monochrome bead.

But really these are all worth spending a lot of time with. Read Jamey Allen's book Magical Ancient Beads and also check out Jatims in the archive here, which will give you a lot of additional information. And then try sorting them out yourself; soon, I bet, you'll be separating the real treasures from the later copies. And on another level it doesn't matter too much anyway; even the fakes are beautiful beads in their own right.

Cheers,

Will

Pelangi177.jpg (70.0 KB)  


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Re: Jatims
Re: Jatims -- will Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: dreamfeat Post Reply
01/09/2012, 19:51:03

Thank you as well for the input. I actually saw a pic in some older photos posted on here by Jamey Allen, that showed a similar bird shape, I believe he had them listed as being authentic. They are all fascinating. I almost fainted when I got them, and I am scouring the internet trying to find out as much about them as I can. The lighter blue bead reminded me of some of the ancient petro-glyphs I had read about here in North America, which I found very interesting. I love finding similarities between cultures especially during times there was no known contact between them. It is a fascinating journey that is keeping the wheels greased!:) Thank you!~ Have a wonderful evening~Anne



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"Big" Dramme
Re: SHARING is CARING...:) -- dreamfeat Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Russ Nobbs Post Reply
01/10/2012, 00:42:23

Yes the elder Mohamadou Dramme did retire although I think I heard that he retired to The Gambia or to Ghana rather than LA. He was often referred to as "Big Dramme." He was in the bead business a long time and well known to many of us.



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Was he the dad of...
Re: "Big" Dramme -- Russ Nobbs Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Joyce Post Reply
01/10/2012, 06:09:38

"Deep Voice Mohamed Drammeh" or the younger Mohamadou Drammeh who makes espresso in his booth at African Village? I also know 2 Kissima Drammehs, but apparently there are 3...The Drammeh family are well known in the trade bead world. And I remember brothers - the late Omaru, and also his brother Banu Drammeh, who retired to Africa, likely Gambia.

Another book waiting to be written - a family history of the Gambian bead traders who have been traveling the world for a couple of generations now. The book "The Bead is Constant" did have a sort of biography approach to it, come to think of it. But I mean the folks who have created communities in LA and the Bronx and who use these areas as home base to travel everywhere, including Asia now......if only I had the time.



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Re: Was he the dad of...
Re: Was he the dad of... -- Joyce Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: dreamfeat Post Reply
01/17/2012, 09:08:10

That would be a fascinating book. I spoke with my Dad today, he couldn't remember if it was Big Drammeh or his son he purchased these beads from, the son is still in contact with him and passes through every couple of years. Thank you~Anne



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Re: SHARING is CARING...:)
Re: SHARING is CARING...:) -- dreamfeat Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: dreamfeat Post Reply
01/17/2012, 08:59:33

So I am happy to announce,these are authentic they were purchased about 15-20 years ago, I was informed that the repros have only been made in the last 12 and the really good ones only in the last 5-6 years. Thank you Jamey for the clarification. Have a blessed day:)



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