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Buehler Columbia River Beads - Beads 13-16 - ID Help Please
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Posted by: Jim Johnson Post Reply
02/02/2011, 14:02:32

Attached are two more photos of beads from the Buehler Collection. Any help as to bead name and origin would be appreciated.
Photo 1 contains Bead 13 (sky blue oval bead 7-10mm long) and Bead 14 (cranberry red yellow center bead 6-9mm) - both again appear to be wound beads.
Photo 2 contains Bead 15 (dark blue wound glass bead 10-13mm) and Bead 16 (yellow center wound cornalines 10mm diameter and 15-20mm long).

buehlerovblucorn1.jpg (101.7 KB)  Buehlercorndpblu1.jpg (106.4 KB)  


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Overlay Venetian Beads
Re: Buehler Columbia River Beads - Beads 13-16 - ID Help Please -- Jim Johnson Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
02/02/2011, 16:33:44

Hi Jim,

It isn't widely agreed to, but (in my opinion) the name "cornaline" should be reserved for drawn overlay beads, also widely called "white-hearts" (when the base is white) by Native Americans and Indian hobbyists. The larger wound versions of these beads, referring to sample cards, are never called either "corneline" nor "Aleppo" beads. The common name in N. America is "Hudson's Bay beads," and in Europe (or European Colonial nations), "ox eye" beads.

These date from the mid-1800s and later.

Jamey



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Re: Overlay Venetian Beads
Re: Overlay Venetian Beads -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Jim Johnson Post Reply
02/02/2011, 19:15:13

Thanks Jamey. To most West Coast collectors of beads dug along the Columbia River, Hudson's Bay Company beads refers to the sky blue beads of all sizes.
We may incorrectly be calling the yellow centered, wound reddish beads of various shapes and sizes "Cornaline d'Allepo" beads.
Is this wrong????



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Re: Re: Overlay Venetian Beads
Re: Re: Overlay Venetian Beads -- Jim Johnson Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
02/02/2011, 22:33:43

Hi Jim,

I wrote an article on this topic that was published by the Bead Society of Greater Washington, DC, and elsewhere, a number of years ago; and I presented a revised version on the Net at National Bead Society a few years ago.

I would be glad to send you a PDF if you write to me privately.

In my formative bead years (when I was hanging out with Indians a lot), only small drawn beads were called "white-hearts." The name cornaline d'Aleppo, in the bead literature, for drawn layered beads goes back to the early 1900s--for red-on-white beads; but was also applied to brick-red-over-green beads in the 1960s. I think the latter is mistaken.

In the 1970s, when both drawn and wound overlay beads became more commonplace (mostly from West Africa), it was at this time that the name was tagged-onto the larger wound beads.

I don't know of any Venetian naming of the wound beads as "cornaline d'Aleppo." So there is no historical support for amending the name to include them. It's an understandable extension of the name—but it's one I disagree with.

Is it wrong? Who am I to say? I'm just a guy who reads, listens, thinks, and draws conclusions. And who makes recommendations.

In the common parlance of bead collecting, all along the West Coast, and inland, and among the fur-trade-interested people, MANY beads are referred to as "Hudson's Bay beads." This includes, white-hearts, large wound overlay beads, sky blue beads, and the so-called "Russian" faceted beads (that are typically cobalt blue). It's not really a useful name, but any of these beads (and others) were or may have been traded by that company.

Jamey



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Re: Re: Re: Overlay Venetian Beads
Re: Re: Re: Overlay Venetian Beads -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Jim Johnson Post Reply
02/06/2011, 19:35:48

Jamey - did you get the message I sent off-line??
I would like the pdf file and any further input you have re the message content.
Thanks.



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"Cornaline d'Alpo"
Re: Overlay Venetian Beads -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
02/03/2011, 19:13:19

is the way one visitor to my former bead shop pronounced this.

You'd have to be aware of the Alpo brand of canned dog food to find this amusing, of course.



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Re: "Cornaline d'Alpo" - Yep!
Re: "Cornaline d'Alpo" -- beadiste Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
02/03/2011, 23:00:08



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