Frederick. For my edification, would you please describe why you think the beads in the above post are arguably late 20th century and your beads (attached) are not? I'm just curious what differences you discern between the two.

This is the post that goes with the below images (which are images of your beads):

beadiste 03/03/2015, 19:33:45

What I see is a difference in lampworking technique - on the older beads, the red/green/yellow trails are added as "frames" for the starburst murrine, often assuming a rather squarish overall outline, or circling the ends of oval beads. They seem to be conceived as squiggly lines of color.

Whereas on the newer beads, the accent trails often appear to be dotted dabs.

Another difference is glass texture - the older beads seem to be mostly smooth and opaque, even semi-tranlucent or milky in appearance.
No gassy, bubbly tomato red or transparent green glass, for example.
Bubble gum and toffee versus transparent lollipop sugar candies...

These, from the Summerfield collection, are a departure from the above. The colors are vibrant--not muted or black--and the frames impinge on the eyes in a few locations rather than frame them... However, they do have the requisite swirling frames (rather than dabs) and the starbursts looks like eyelashes with way too much mascara. These beads and the first example seem to stray from type, as described by Beadiste above.

Joyce 02/04/2016, 21:58:13

…I've been more curious about the lovely 1930s Boshan (Chinese) millefiori beads in recent years. I was really rather dazzled to see these beads from the Summerfield collection displayed by Jamey Allen in the ballroom with the Ethnographic Group. What a splash of color! I will knot them simply on black cord. Approx. 12mm x 12mm.

In this case, I believe the comparison is clear.

This is my necklace. And I added some newer ones. The difference was well described by Chris:

"What I see is a difference in lampworking technique - on the older beads, the red/green/yellow trails are added as "frames" for the starburst murrine, often assuming a rather squarish overall outline, or circling the ends of oval beads. They seem to be conceived as squiggly lines of color.

Whereas on the newer beads, the accent trails often appear to be dotted dabs.

Another difference is glass texture - the older beads seem to be mostly smooth and opaque, even semi-tranlucent or milky in appearance.
No gassy, bubbly tomato red or transparent green glass, for example.
Bubble gum and toffee versus transparent lollipop sugar candies…"

Stylistic generalizations about arts and crafts are problematic. You are welcome to doubt my opinion. We learn more from disagreement. After all, in art there are exceptions to every rule -especially when we allow for artistic license.

The ones which I am certain are old have dots and multi-colored squiggles applied with confidence. The eyes are well centered and do not overlap. The squiggles are strong and seem under control by comparison.

After handling many beads which you are certain are old, and after experiencing beads which are certainly new, your intuition tells you.

Old beads often -but not always- have patina. And when they do, you have a clue which informs you.

Trying to make judgement calls when dating crafts is not easy. And trying to choose words to describe these differences is difficult for me. I cannot expect everyone to see what I see.

I suspect, also, that I may feel differently about these beads if I were to see them in person...

So very interesting. Thank you!

from Hands of the Hills, as were the Summerfield beads...

Will like for you to see mine at the next opportunity, Fred. I was warned by another collector who has handled these and remembers when H o H had them that the red glass is more fragile than the others, and sure enough, they are the ones with some small chips. And it is interesting that the decorative trails on my red ones are monotone rather than two or three colors. But the surface wear seems characteristic enough for me not to suspect that they are newer beads "slipped in" with the group. But as ever, I welcome as many critical eyes as possible.

The stringing and clasp on the original strand pictured does not look new.

I bought these other loose beads a while ago that came with a card from the original owner, in case this is informative.

I am afraid some of the sellers on eBay, Etsy and elsewhere suffer from a conflict of interest when they are describing the age and provenance of beads.

Personally, I suspect these beads are from the 90's because of the flattened ends on some of them. Not all clues are confirmations. But they add up. For example, the eyes and squiggles are comparatively random. The bubbles in the odd pink glass are peculiar.

I have not concentrated on the Chinese starburst bead so much. And. I believe there are a few specialist dealers who will generously share information from their experience. Does anyone have access to them?

I remember talking with Steve at Hands of the Hills back in the 1990's at the time he had two types. One he said were old and the others were new. I may have one of his old catalogs somewhere that could possibly show the differences, just a thought.

The one below came from Jimmy Swoape back in the 90's it is larger size than most, about 20 mm in diameter. He claimed to have had it since the 1970's if I recall correctly.

Photo of the clasp and stringing from the listing. This looks older than the 1990's.

191805187077

$100

Wenatchee, Washington

I have yet to see this sort of dainty rectangular box clasp on any cloisonne or porcelain or glass necklace from the 1970s onward.

Here's a tiny box clasp on a necklace that appears to be Chinese glass from around 1920s-30s? It measures 9x4x3mm.

I respect the possibility that a clasp and string is a clue. But it is not conclusive evidence that the beads it joins together are of a certain age.

Most bead collectors have a bunch of old clasps which we like to rescue and recycle. Therefore, of all the clues that we use to date beads, I think that the clasp and string is the least conclusive.

Kitrescue, I don't know how old your beads are. Since you asked, I am just telling you how I feel about them. And you must reach your own conclusions.

Just Fred