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question about "neolithic" african beads
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Posted by: Stefany Post Reply
02/22/2016, 07:44:49

the roughly knapped and pecked agate and quartz beads of W. Africa are often described as "Neolithic", and those tiny unglazed pottery segmented tubular beads.
What do we really know about their age??

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Re: question about "neolithic" african beads
Re: question about "neolithic" african beads -- Stefany Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lopacki Post Reply
02/22/2016, 15:28:19

Stefany,
I can't give you the true age of these beads but my feeling on these pecked hole beads is that they are some of the earliest stone beads made. This said my guess on age would be in excess of 5,000 years.

All my best ........ Danny



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But how about the jasper beads from Ilorin?
Re: Re: question about "neolithic" african beads -- lopacki Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: ShuD Post Reply
02/22/2016, 16:25:04



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Re: But how about the jasper beads from Ilorin?
Re: But how about the jasper beads from Ilorin? -- ShuD Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Stefany Post Reply
02/23/2016, 07:21:37

please would you like to show and/or explain?



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An old Hausa "pecker"...
Re: Re: But how about the jasper beads from Ilorin? -- Stefany Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: ShuD Post Reply
02/24/2016, 09:30:20

was photographed and interviewed at Ilorin in 1998. Metal (iron or steel) peckers were collected. Witnessed a polishing demonstration. Also at Ilorin, three old powder glass workers were interviewed with a demonstration. The jasper or "lantana" beads are common and you no doubt have some. It's an ancient industry, probably Hausa using material from the Northern Nigeria area.

There's an old article in "MAN" titled "Stone Beads from Ilorin", I think (ask Beadman). Also, a hint that the same work went on at Bida, although Etsu Nupe was not aware of it.

What does the literature say about pecking? Can you do it without metal tools? I would think the conical perfs are bow drilled. Visit the experts on these techniques. Meanwhile, some of the "neolithic" stuff would appear to be Cambay or some such. "Neolithic" is another standard marketing term to add flavor to value when selling.

The clay stuff? Always suspicious. JP used to say, at least, they're not new. They're pretty clean, intact, and uniform to have been dug up in these quantities. There's the other theory that they're made from powdered shards of old pottery, hence the "ancient" dating of these beads. It's been done with new pottery fakes.

Can you peck hard stone with deer antlers or some such?



Modified by ShuD at Wed, Feb 24, 2016, 09:50:20

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thanks -maybe useful information...
Re: An old Hausa "pecker"... -- ShuD Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Stefany Post Reply
02/24/2016, 12:58:18



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Some might find this interesting
Re: thanks -maybe useful information... -- Stefany Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadweyr Post Reply
02/24/2016, 13:27:14

part of an article from African Arts Vol. 19, No. 4 by Ann O'Hear on Ilorin Lantana Beads.


Related link: http://www.jstor.org/stable/3336285?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

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Dating these stone beads....
Re: Re: question about "neolithic" african beads -- lopacki Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: floorkasp Post Reply
02/23/2016, 02:33:28

From what I have been told, some of these beads may indeed be in the range of a thousand or thousands of years old, but.........it is also quite possible a fair number of them are no more than a few hundred years old. The techniques of pecking, grinding on a stone etc could easily have been used much more recent than we would think, simply because more modern techniques were not yet available in parts of Africa.

I'm hoping Thomas will add to this discussion too....



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The term "neolithic" and its timescale depends on area
Re: question about "neolithic" african beads -- Stefany Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: hans Post Reply
02/23/2016, 05:22:34

The Dani people in the Balim Valley in Irian Jaya were living in a Neolithic age when visited in 1938 AD.
The bauxite Abo beads made in Ghana and jasper Lantana beads made in Nigeria were still pecked on a big scale in the first half of the 20th century.



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thanks so far...and the pottery ones?
Re: The term "neolithic" and its timescale depends on area -- hans Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Stefany Post Reply
02/23/2016, 07:19:42

so what can anyone tell me about the tiny unglazed pottery beads, also said to be very old?



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Still searching
Re: thanks so far...and the pottery ones? -- Stefany Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: hans Post Reply
02/23/2016, 08:15:16

Hi Stefany,
somewhere in my apartment there must be a copy of a french document on unearthed "Dogon" pottery beads, but I can't find it at the moment. What I remember from that report, the tested beads were 600 - 700 years old. But I think a lot of this kind of beads are still made easy and not that old.



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tomb beads
Re: Still searching -- hans Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: judy Post Reply
02/25/2016, 18:30:08

These small clay beads are known as tomb beads. They were supposedly made around a plant stem or small stick which burned away during the firing process. They come from Mali and the old ones were available many years ago. The beads currently being sold on the market are new.



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neolithic
Re: tomb beads -- judy Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: judy Post Reply
02/25/2016, 18:39:46

Alok Kanungo is an archeologist who has worked closely with James Lankton. during a dig in India he found stone beads that were dated at 4,000 BC (neolithic). the book can be found on the Internet, it shows stone beads identical to the beads excavated in Mali. He also did research and a dig on ancient glass beads manufactured in India. I have the report with pictures if anyone would like a copy please contact me with your email address and I will be happy to send it.



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Just sent you a private message, and thank you for the offer!
Re: neolithic -- judy Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Luann Udell Post Reply
02/27/2016, 11:19:30

Luann Udell artist & writer Ancient stories retold in modern artifacts LuannUdell.com

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hi Judy, sorry for finding your message so late
Re: tomb beads -- judy Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: hans Post Reply
03/07/2016, 04:36:46

I'm still not used to look in the BCN private mail option, but happy it's there!
I've sending you a reply, thx for the offer



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Sigh
Re: question about "neolithic" african beads -- Stefany Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
02/25/2016, 09:39:50


Related link: http://beadcollector.net/cgi-bin/anyboard.cgi?fvp=%2Fopenforum%2F&tK=neolithic+beadman&wT=1&yVz=yTz&aO=1&hIz=3000&hJz=2000&cmd=find&by=&xcfgfs=tK-wT-yVz-aO-hKz

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Re: Sigh
Re: Sigh -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
02/25/2016, 09:42:25


Related link: http://beadcollector.net/cgi-bin/anyboard.cgi?fvp=%2Fopenforum%2F&tK=neolithic+beadman&wT=1&yVz=yTz&aO=1&hIz=4000&hJz=3000&cmd=find&by=&xcfgfs=tK-wT-yVz-aO-hKz

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yes, Jamey- thanks
Re: Re: Sigh -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Stefany Post Reply
02/25/2016, 10:30:54

so i agree for these sorts of beads the term "Neolithic" is always used rashly- it may only refer to the technology rather than any time period, up to C20th... and craftsmen and lapidary metal hand tools are known.
Maybe there will be even more convincing visible evidence one day that links the beads most specifically to one tradition, whatever the descriptive name may be.

i generally see Lantana beads as elongated shapes, of cornelian, and recognise many as the typical shapes from India.

meanwhile those pottery beads- i've been told several times that they are found in sealed
burial jars in Mali. etc. has anyone here seen them being made?



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More
Re: yes, Jamey- thanks -- Stefany Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
02/25/2016, 10:56:55


Related link: http://beadcollector.net/cgi-bin/anyboard.cgi?fvp=%2Fopenforum%2F&tK=lantana&wT=1&yVz=yTz&aO=1&hIz=4000&hJz=3000&cmd=find&by=&xcfgfs=tK-wT-yVz-aO-hKz

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LOL, welcome back, Jamey, good to see you here!
Re: More -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Luann Udell Post Reply
02/27/2016, 11:20:34

Off to educate myself some more.....!!!

Luann Udell artist & writer Ancient stories retold in modern artifacts LuannUdell.com

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A great read, and a good lesson....
Re: LOL, welcome back, Jamey, good to see you here! -- Luann Udell Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Luann Udell Post Reply
02/27/2016, 11:43:24

I totally get "neolithic" in age/dating and "neolithic" relative to a specific culture's technological development.

It doesn't detract from the value of these beads for me, but it reinforces my 'system' when it comes to collecting beads, fwiw.

I always consider the price compared to how much I love the beads themselves. I'll pay more if they are worth it TO ME.

I feel that sometimes I get a deal and a real bargain, and other times I get hosed. If I don't get caught up in 'worth' and 'investment', then I can roll with both.

Jamey, thank you for the clarification.

Luann Udell artist & writer Ancient stories retold in modern artifacts LuannUdell.com

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Search the archives
Re: question about "neolithic" african beads -- Stefany Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: floorkasp Post Reply
02/27/2016, 17:12:16

One of the reasons Joyce and David from BCN have worked so hard to keep the BCN Forum software is to keep all the old posts still available and easy to search. There is such a wealth of information there!
I use this option a lot.
I actually even use it to sometimes search my own old posts. So even though you are always free to ask questions, it is also good to have a look by searching. You'll usually find something on any bead that is out there.....



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Are these LANTANA beads?
Re: question about "neolithic" african beads -- Stefany Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: nishedha Post Reply
02/28/2016, 00:49:08

From Scott Semans (coincoin.com) I have that beads like this one are used by the brides-to-be of the Mandinka, to show they are about to marry and are waiting for their beloved (which is somewhere in the bush collecting more precious goodies for her).
They are made of jasper, and show pecked, very small, not strait perforations.
The speciment shown is 36,5 mm long,but I own several more, both larger and smaller.
As I am about to upload them to my web page, educated information would make me happy.

stb001_d.gif (150.5 KB)  stb001_f.gif (189.6 KB)  


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Yes!
Re: Are these LANTANA beads? -- nishedha Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
02/28/2016, 00:51:42



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Thank you so much, now I know what lantana really means!
Re: Yes! -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: nishedha Post Reply
02/28/2016, 02:04:51



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