Post Message Search Overview RegisterLoginAdmin
QUESTION: I can't tell difference between GOLD FOIL and AVENTURINE.
Post Reply Edit View All Forum
Posted by: Vicki Fish Post Reply
02/07/2016, 15:52:07

QUESTION: I'm confused between AVENTURINE and GOLD FOIL/LEAF! I have just inherited a large collection of Venetian beads, many sommerso and many wedding cake, and others. I know aventurine is the drizzle on the wedding cakes, but is the GOLD I see in INSIDE the sommersos GOLD FOIL? This is my first post, so excited to have joined, I'm fascinated with these beads I now find myself with. The original collector was from Germany and her mother also collected, some of these are quite old.

"Enrolled: Beaducation 101"

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: QUESTION: I can't tell difference between GOLD FOIL and AVENTURINE.
Re: QUESTION: I can't tell difference between GOLD FOIL and AVENTURINE. -- Vicki Fish Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Vicki Fish Post Reply
02/07/2016, 16:03:12

I'm trying to upload a photo, bear with me! :P

IMG_475906829-1.JPG (230.5 KB)  
"Enrolled: Beaducation 101"

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Congratulations!
Re: QUESTION: I can't tell difference between GOLD FOIL and AVENTURINE. -- Vicki Fish Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Joyce Post Reply
02/07/2016, 20:13:36

It sounds like a wonderful group of beads are now yours! The sparkly metallic effect inside your sommersos is indeed tiny copper particles, the same sort which are suspended in the "drizzles" or trail decor upon the "wedding cake" beads.....over at Google translate, "sommerso" translates to "submerged"...take a 14x loupe to your beads, it will be interesting.

The fancy Venetian beads that are decorated with gold leaf on the OUTSIDE are a different animal entirely. This exterior decor is very fragile, and should be handled with extreme care. Don't sleep in them like I do many of my beads. You can almost visibly rub this gold foil off, which is why examples that have survived for decades in great condition are rare.

Yet another effect is indeed gold leaf inside, or underneath clear glass. I have some plain ones like this. They are an irregular shape, with the bright gold foil protected by clear glass. But it looks nothing like the sparkly aventurine of "sommerso" beads.

Confusing, I know , but hope this helps.



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Congratulations!
Re: Congratulations! -- Joyce Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Vicki Fish Post Reply
02/08/2016, 06:09:23

Thank you Joyce for the explanation. Especially the information on how fragile the gold foil is, and that it can be underneath as well. I think mine in the photo must be aventurine submerged in that sommerso bead.

"Enrolled: Beaducation 101"

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Aventurine is formed from flakes of copper
Re: QUESTION: I can't tell difference between GOLD FOIL and AVENTURINE. -- Vicki Fish Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
02/07/2016, 20:49:40

Normally, if you hold something like a gold clasp and a copper clasp up to a bead you can easily tell if the inclusion or surface decoration is gold or aventurine (copper). It's sometimes hard to tell from pictures due to variations in color rendition.

Some of the "drizzle" on wedding cake beads is gold and some is aventurine. In general I think gold foil decoration is more rare but other forumites may be able to clarify that.



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Aventurine is formed from flakes of copper
Re: Aventurine is formed from flakes of copper -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Vicki Fish Post Reply
02/08/2016, 06:19:44

Wow! That's a great tip, I'll do that!

"Enrolled: Beaducation 101"

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Some pictures of both
Re: QUESTION: I can't tell difference between GOLD FOIL and AVENTURINE. -- Vicki Fish Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: hans Post Reply
02/08/2016, 05:22:41

Hi Vicky,
hopefully following pictures can help you.
These two beads belong to a friend of mine and made before 1952.
The first is an Aventurine Lampwound bead - Venice
The second is a Goldfoil Lampwound bead - Venice

Aventurine_Lampwound_-_Venice.jpg (45.5 KB)  Goldfoil_Lampwound_-_Venice.jpg (43.6 KB)  


Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Some others
Re: Some pictures of both -- hans Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: hans Post Reply
02/08/2016, 05:27:13

The first is a Silverfoil Lampwound bead - Venice before 1952
The second picture are older beads, Goldfoil between two drawn glass tubes - probably made in South East Asia, collected in Java

Silverfoil_Lampwound_-_Venice.jpg (33.3 KB)  Goldfoil_between_two_drawn_glasstubes_-_SEAsia.jpg (50.0 KB)  


Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Some others, small correction
Re: Some others -- hans Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: hans Post Reply
02/08/2016, 05:33:55

sorry, maybe the SE Asia beads are not Gold foil but probably Silver colored foil under an amber colored glastube.



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Great images, Hans, thanks for showing!
Re: Some pictures of both -- hans Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Joyce Post Reply
02/08/2016, 05:37:43



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Hi Joyce, you're welcome, as always!
Re: Great images, Hans, thanks for showing! -- Joyce Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: hans Post Reply
02/08/2016, 05:46:14



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Some pictures of both
Re: Some pictures of both -- hans Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Vicki Fish Post Reply
02/08/2016, 08:10:36

Hans, thank you, the bead examples you posted are very helpful.
Another question: is the gold and silver foil pretty much always a thin application (like the word foil implies?).

"Enrolled: Beaducation 101"

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
As far as I know yes, but....
Re: Re: Some pictures of both -- Vicki Fish Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: hans Post Reply
02/08/2016, 08:36:13

There are some rare powderglass beads made by the Krobo people in Ghana were gold dust is sprinkled on the grinded glasspowder before heating. This is a modern bead.

IMG_1313+.jpg (20.5 KB)  IMG_1315+.jpg (19.0 KB)  


Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Identifying sparkly gold
Re: Some pictures of both -- hans Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Ms J Post Reply
02/08/2016, 13:48:46


Here are some tips for identifying sparkly metal in lampwork glass beads:

Most of the shiny gold and silver is sheets of metal "leaf", which is a thinner (and less expensive) version of foil.

To my knowledge*, only high karat gold and fine silver can handle the high temperatures of the torch without turning black in the flame. Thin metal leaf, while less expensive, also burns away easily.

Because of this, gold and silver elements used in beads are usually covered with transparent glass for protection - either buried in deep layers (sommerso) or with a thin coating for surface decoration. As Joyce mentioned, a lot of "gold" is actually silver with a yellow transparent layer.

Gold foil can also be coated with clear glass and "stretched" which creates a flaked or textured appearance.

Goldstone, gold leaf, dichroic -- can be tricky to differentiate.
--Shiny or matte gold is usually foil/leaf
--Sparkly/shimmery gold is either goldstone (powdered copper encased
in clear or glass)
--Sparkly/shimmery that changes colors is likely dichroic glass(glass
coated with metal oxides).

DISCLAIMER -- There's a lot of shiny gold showing up in cheap Chinese beads...I can't imagine that it's real gold, so perhaps they've found another metal that cheap and stands up to the heat of lampwork torches.



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Re: Identifying sparkly gold
Re: Re: Identifying sparkly gold -- Ms J Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Vicki Fish Post Reply
02/08/2016, 16:33:56

This is a great explanation, just what I've been looking for. Thank you!

"Enrolled: Beaducation 101"

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Re: Identifying sparkly gold
Re: Re: Identifying sparkly gold -- Ms J Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: ann Post Reply
02/09/2016, 09:56:28

From the marble-collector side of things, I figure I might add that aventurine -- the sparkly gold glass kind -- is actually a precipitate of copper, produced through a kind of tricky process. Generally it's present in the hot glass as cupric oxide (a colorant, used primarily for blues and greens), but if present in enough quantity and the glass is heated hot enough in an oxygen-reduced atmosphere, tiny crystals of copper will form. It can look like gold or copper. It can also be blue or green, or sometimes bronze or even black or silver. One of the vintage marble companies (Peltier Glass) used it fairly often on certain marble types in the 1930s. Interestingly, if you take it beyond the point of forming aventurine you might get what marble collectors call oxblood.

A Peltier "Zebra" with bronze and green aventurine, and an Alley Agate "oxblood."

Bronze_green_zebra_3.jpg (144.0 KB)  Ox_swirl_4.jpg (77.9 KB)  


Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Re: Re: Identifying sparkly gold
Re: Re: Re: Identifying sparkly gold -- ann Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Vicki Fish Post Reply
02/09/2016, 11:30:55

I love that oxblood!

"Enrolled: Beaducation 101"

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Enjoy!
Re: QUESTION: I can't tell difference between GOLD FOIL and AVENTURINE. -- Vicki Fish Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: floorkasp Post Reply
02/09/2016, 11:09:40

I think with all the responses you should be able to distinguish the different types.
Couple things to add: Aventurine glass or goldstone glass does not like direct heat from the torch. It's sparkle will go away when heated too much. Not just silver and gold foil and leaf are used in lampwork. Copper is also used sometimes as leaf. It is sometimes cut into shapes and added to a glass piece. It get's a nice colored look and when treated right it keeps it's shape.

Gold and silver are also often used for 'fuming' especially by modern glass artists. It creates the most beautiful results.

The books by Jargstorff are great for what you are looking into. Not so much for identification, but for the history, you might also enjoy my books on 'Beads from Jablonec' and 'Beads from Germany'. They can be downloaded for free.


Related link: Website beadmuseum: download books

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Enjoy!
Re: Enjoy! -- floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: ann Post Reply
02/09/2016, 12:15:14

"Aventurine glass or goldstone glass does not like direct heat from the torch. It's sparkle will go away when heated too much."

Exactly! It's on the road to oxblood . . . if you're lucky. A fine mess, if not!



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Enjoy!
Re: Enjoy! -- floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Vicki Fish Post Reply
02/09/2016, 15:05:24

You're right, I think I can tell the difference now, so MUCH good information has been shared here, I so appreciate it. I have downloaded your books from your site, and looked at ALL the card samples (love love). And today I purchased 2 Picard books and the Dupin. I'm building a bead library! I HAVE to to understand this windfall.

"Enrolled: Beaducation 101"

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Re: Enjoy!
Re: Re: Enjoy! -- Vicki Fish Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: ann Post Reply
02/09/2016, 16:22:00

Yep. You're a goner now.

Not beads, but gold and green aventurine glass, just for pleasure . . .

Gold_AV_jabo.jpg (55.6 KB)  Aventurine_x.jpg (244.7 KB)  


Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Re: Re: Enjoy!
Re: Re: Re: Enjoy! -- ann Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lindabd Post Reply
02/09/2016, 17:04:53

Just because..

IMG_6151.JPG (189.8 KB)  IMG_6150.JPG (197.3 KB)  


Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Re: Re: Re: Enjoy!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Enjoy! -- lindabd Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Vicki Fish Post Reply
02/09/2016, 18:33:20

Oh My! Those are too gorgeous, eye candy.

"Enrolled: Beaducation 101"

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Enjoy!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Enjoy! -- Vicki Fish Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lindabd Post Reply
02/09/2016, 19:56:56

That's how we live in bead land!



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Re: Re: Re: Enjoy!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Enjoy! -- lindabd Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: mparis Post Reply
02/10/2016, 05:49:52

Ooh some of my favorites!



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Re: Re: Enjoy!
Re: Re: Re: Enjoy! -- ann Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: ann Post Reply
02/10/2016, 13:37:56

OK, OK, a bead . . .

bead_aventurine_mille.jpg (150.1 KB)  


Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users


Forum     Back