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Another bead ID query..
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Posted by: lindabd Post Reply
02/03/2016, 16:44:32


Hi Everyone,

These belong to a friend actually.
They are very beautiful beads that she believes to be quite old, and from Afghanistan. I'm not familiar with most of them, and those I know are Venetian and not so old. They seem to be mostly glass.
Anything jump out to you guys? The colors are very rich and beautiful, though this photo, taken at twilight, may make them look bluer than they are.
Thanks for your eyes and experience.

LD

IMG_5291.jpg (135.1 KB)  


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More photos..
Re: Another bead ID query.. -- lindabd Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lindabd Post Reply
02/03/2016, 16:51:08

IMG_5293.JPG (203.3 KB)  IMG_5295.jpg (237.7 KB)  


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final photo
Re: Another bead ID query.. -- lindabd Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lindabd Post Reply
02/03/2016, 16:51:57

IMG_5297.jpg (209.2 KB)  


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Would it help if I narrowed it down? Individual bead pic?
Re: Another bead ID query.. -- lindabd Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lindabd Post Reply
02/04/2016, 17:09:03



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can you show each of the 3 loops separately?
Re: Another bead ID query.. -- lindabd Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Stefany Post Reply
02/05/2016, 23:04:52



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Re: Another bead ID query..
Re: Another bead ID query.. -- lindabd Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Odan Post Reply
02/06/2016, 09:11:51

To me, these look like Faience type beads from Egypt.



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Re: Re: Another bead ID query..
Re: Re: Another bead ID query.. -- Odan Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lindabd Post Reply
02/06/2016, 17:29:06

Thank you Odan,
It was just starting to dawn on me that many of them might be faience.
Attached here are separate images of the strands in a more accurate color temperature.
I so appreciate the help.
LD

IMG_5918.JPG (208.9 KB)  IMG_5922.JPG (238.2 KB)  


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Re: Re: Re: Another bead ID query..
Re: Re: Re: Another bead ID query.. -- lindabd Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lapzz Post Reply
02/07/2016, 21:01:44

Yes in this photo group, don't know how old are the glass beads but there are some ancient stone beads as well...



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Yes there are, do you recognize any of them particularly? Any clue would be great!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Another bead ID query.. -- lapzz Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lindabd Post Reply
02/07/2016, 22:40:15



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Re: Re: Re: Re: Another bead ID query..
Re: Re: Re: Re: Another bead ID query.. -- lapzz Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lapzz Post Reply
02/08/2016, 03:27:59

Look for a yellowish green chalcedony. turquoise and could be some amazonite beads as well, some might be old.



Modified by lapzz at Mon, Feb 08, 2016, 03:49:46

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last photo...
Re: Re: Another bead ID query.. -- Odan Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lindabd Post Reply
02/06/2016, 17:30:49

IMG_5941.JPG (222.1 KB)  


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Re: last photo...
Re: last photo... -- lindabd Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Stefany Post Reply
02/08/2016, 01:31:55

i can see a couple of beads on this strand that are definitely modelled faience such as are sometimes called Mesopotamian- the bicone with ridges and holes, and another square bicone shape...
there also appear to be some opaque glass wound beads paddled into shape which could be Turkish, or Egyptian or Pakistani!
were they finds in the ground on one of the ancient trade routes?



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I thought I saw a Quartz bead?
Re: last photo... -- lindabd Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: hans Post Reply
02/08/2016, 05:09:59

Yes, a lot of these beads are glass, from very different periods in time.
Typical beads found in Afghanistan. These are nice strands.

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Re: I thought I saw a Quartz bead?
Re: I thought I saw a Quartz bead? -- hans Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lindabd Post Reply
02/08/2016, 05:43:29

Hi Hans!
Yes, the feather bead fragment really throws me!
I've neve heard of glazed quartz. Is there a period of manufacture?
Many thanks!!
LD



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Re: Re: I thought I saw a Quartz bead?
Re: Re: I thought I saw a Quartz bead? -- lindabd Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: hans Post Reply
02/08/2016, 06:01:33

The glazed quartz beads were probably made 200-600 AD in Iran in the neighbourhood of Nishapur, Khurasan.
Pictured bead length x ¯ - conical perf = 9,6 x 12,3 - 11,1- 2,8 mm

Glazed_Quartz_bead.jpg (35.3 KB)  


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Thank you thank you thank you Hans!!!
Re: Re: Re: I thought I saw a Quartz bead? -- hans Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lindabd Post Reply
02/08/2016, 06:13:07



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Here is a close up of another particular mystery
Re: Re: Re: I thought I saw a Quartz bead? -- hans Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lindabd Post Reply
02/08/2016, 06:28:01

Seems like stone...

1_IMG_5915.JPG (183.8 KB)  


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Amazonite?
Re: Here is a close up of another particular mystery -- lindabd Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: hans Post Reply
02/08/2016, 06:40:45



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Yes, of course. Thank you Hans!
Re: Here is a close up of another particular mystery -- lindabd Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lindabd Post Reply
02/08/2016, 13:04:11



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Question...
Re: Another bead ID query.. -- lindabd Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
02/06/2016, 19:32:39

Hi Linda,
Neat beads! Did your friend indicate where she acquired them? That may provide some clues.



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Re: Question...
Re: Question... -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lindabd Post Reply
02/06/2016, 22:16:40

Yes, from a "patrician" seller, an older gentleman who's name I didn't catch. I'll ask her if she remembers this week. He may have been Pakistani. I'll find out.
Cheers!
LD



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Re: Re: Question...
Re: Re: Question... -- lindabd Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lindabd Post Reply
02/07/2016, 09:30:03

My friend purchased them from Abdul Wais, who was from Mazar-e-sharif in Afghanistan.



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Said to be from the Sasanian empire, can that be right for some of them?
Re: Re: Re: Question... -- lindabd Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lindabd Post Reply
02/07/2016, 17:40:56



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Ghandara and the Swat Valley
Re: Said to be from the Sasanian empire, can that be right for some of them? -- lindabd Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
02/08/2016, 13:00:09

Linda,
For the past 5 years or so, I have seen beads and spindle whorls that supposedly have been "fairly recently" dug up in the Swat Valley, in the area of the ancient kingdom of Ghandara (near present day Peshawar). In one case the items were personally collected by the Pakistani seller. I think it would be safe to consider that beads brought to the US by Pakistani or Afghani sellers, or from people closely associated with that area of the world, are from the areas known in antiquity as Bactria and Ghandara. The Sasanian Empire, (a Persian Empire) controlled the area from 224 - 651 AD - then it fell to Muslim invaders. You may find it interesting to read up on the history of that part of the world - it is complex and fascinating.

Dating any of the beads is problematic. If they are being casually dug up with no regards to archeological dating methods, then their true history is lost. It is also likely that beads are collected from different sources and areas and re-strung a number of times into market strands. This is why a mixture of materials can be found on the strands.

We should probably just regard such beads as "old and possibly ancient beads from the Middle East".



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Re: Ghandara and the Swat Valley
Re: Ghandara and the Swat Valley -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lindabd Post Reply
02/08/2016, 13:38:00

Thank you Rosanna, I hear what you are saying.
I find that I spend a great deal of time reading these days as my casual offer to help a few well travelled friends to downsize has opened up a lot of channels.
If you could direct me to reading material that would give me a way enter the vast and complex history you mention, I would be indebted.
Also, is there an ethical way to deal with something like this? I enjoy working with beautiful and old objects, but for obvious reasons would prefer to avoid antiquity - yet things turn up.
Thank you so much for your time.
Linda



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Nothing fancy - I use Wikipedia a lot and go from there!
Re: Re: Ghandara and the Swat Valley -- lindabd Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
02/08/2016, 15:31:55

And I'd encourage you to donate a small amount each year (like $10) to the Wikipedia Foundation to help them stay in operation.

As far as the potential looting of ancient sites - let's face it, unless you buy your beads from an archeology department that had gotten permission from the owners of the site where they were excavated - all ancient (1000+ years old) beads we encounter on the marketplace have been taken from burial or other sites, by locals or foreign adventurers. With maybe the exception (and I believe this would be a very small percentage) of some heirloom beads that were passed down for generations for hundreds to thousands of years. Certainly some pema raka and dzi beads would fall into the latter category.

African and other trade beads from the Colonial Era on up to present times are "sometimes" taken from grave sites but I believe the vast majority have been in circulation or in collections in their respective countries since their introduction.

This is just my humble opinion and it might be interesting to hear some other ideas on the travels of ancient beads that we can buy on today's market.



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