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Some very odd murine in this Venetian millefiori bead
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Posted by: Carl Dreibelbis Post Reply
10/30/2009, 15:30:30

Hello All,

I have seen hundreds of old (early 1900s) Venetian millefiori oval beads but never one like this one.

Notice the bead in the front-center in the first image and far right in the second image.

The center of the murrine is crazy.....like a spider web, or a crystal cave or.......

Thanks,

Carl

4_bcn.jpg (105.0 KB)  1_bcn1.jpg (88.9 KB)  


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Vibrant and beautiful.
Re: Some very odd murine in this Venetian millefiori bead -- Carl Dreibelbis Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Logan Post Reply
10/30/2009, 16:39:42



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Picards call this effect "Brecciated" I believe-
Re: Some very odd murine in this Venetian millefiori bead -- Carl Dreibelbis Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Stefany Post Reply
10/30/2009, 18:33:24



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Thank you , Stefany
Re: Picards call this effect "Brecciated" I believe- -- Stefany Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carl Dreibelbis Post Reply
10/30/2009, 19:18:20

Very interesting and it makes perfect sense AND I learned a new word. Thank you.

Carl



Modified by Carl Dreibelbis at Fri, Oct 30, 2009, 20:16:21

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Hi Carl, I have some cylinders with the same murine
Re: Thank you , Stefany -- Carl Dreibelbis Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Judy Post Reply
10/30/2009, 20:19:20

I love them!

millie_cylinders_2.jpg (94.7 KB)  millie_cylinders_2_detail.jpg (132.8 KB)  


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Thanks for the photos Judy, very beautiful beads.
Re: Hi Carl, I have some cylinders with the same murine -- Judy Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carl Dreibelbis Post Reply
11/02/2009, 16:54:39



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Breccia
Re: Thank you , Stefany -- Carl Dreibelbis Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
10/31/2009, 01:01:14

Hi Carl,

Breccia is the name for certain minerals, such as jasper, that have been broken-up and cemented back together (by nature), with a mineral of another color. The Venetians devised a technique for imitating this effect by fusing together jagged pieces of one glass in a matrix of another. It's not so unusual to find these glasses as the centers of millefiori canes. I'm somewhat surprised you have not noticed them before. In the early 20th C., Venetians mad lots of imitations of semi-precious stones in mosaic-glass, that were used for inlays—as for furniture and the like.

An author named Mariacher wrote about this practice. I cite him in my mosaic-glass article. My article may have included some mention of these canes, though they are not included in the classification specimens. But, in any event, I discuss them in my lectures on same.

Jamey



Modified by Beadman at Sat, Oct 31, 2009, 01:11:42

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Thanks, Jamey. It's true, I have not seen them before.
Re: Breccia -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carl Dreibelbis Post Reply
10/31/2009, 06:07:21



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I failed to notice also...(learn something new every day)
Re: Breccia -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: TASART Post Reply
10/31/2009, 07:39:10



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A few more with 'brecciated' centres
Re: Thank you , Stefany -- Carl Dreibelbis Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carole Morris Post Reply
11/01/2009, 03:15:44

Hi Carl
I remember Stef and I talking about this when JP first used the term and collating beads together which we had in our collections at the time. I only have a few examples, but here they are for reference
Cheers
Carole

97-brecciated_centres013.jpg (69.5 KB)  


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interesting beads
Re: A few more with 'brecciated' centres -- Carole Morris Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: freedomgood Post Reply
11/01/2009, 06:28:06



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Re: Some very odd murine in this Venetian millefiori bead
Re: Some very odd murine in this Venetian millefiori bead -- Carl Dreibelbis Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: ancient beads Post Reply
11/01/2009, 07:54:23

Hi Carl
Have a look at the bead do you think its the same murine ?
all the best
Yankee

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Hi Yankee
Re: Re: Some very odd murine in this Venetian millefiori bead -- ancient beads Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: TASART Post Reply
11/01/2009, 08:49:51

these look more like bundled 2 layer rods, very interesting bead!



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Re: Hi Thomas
Re: Hi Yankee -- TASART Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: ancient beads Post Reply
11/01/2009, 10:20:26

interesting yes but no Hole Just a murine.That i dont know nothing about.
All the best
Yankee



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Right!
Re: Hi Yankee -- TASART Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
11/01/2009, 14:21:42



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Re: Right! ???
Re: Right! -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: ancient beads Post Reply
11/01/2009, 14:37:26

Hi jamey
is it the same or not ?? venetian ?? time frame ??
Thank you
yankee



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Re: Venetian Millefiori Beads - Time Ranges and Styles
Re: Re: Right! ??? -- ancient beads Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
11/01/2009, 22:09:58

Hello Yankee,

The revival of producing millefiori trade beads at Venice, in-earnest, began in about 1850, and lasted through ca. 1950—or 100 years. That is a reasonably short time, considering how long glass beads have been made. Within that 100 years, there are not many generalizations I would be confident to make. There are some changes in glass chemistry, equipment, and styles of beadmaking along the way that help date particular beads. Glass chemistry was advanced in the 1880s and again by the early 1920s—providing a new color palate (of mostly brighter glasses, like the bright, usually opaque, cadmium/selenium reds, oranges, and yellows).

For technology, whale oil as a fuel for lamps (for lampworking), was changed to carborated gas—and this cleaner, hotter fuel is said to have made brighter clearer colors possible.

Thankfully, the early-to-mid 1800s was also the time that sample cards became routine and widely available—and because some are dated, it's possible to more fully understand the times that beads were made, and what beads were made simultaneously.

The times that the greatest numbers of millefiori beads were made was the 1920s. Statistically, because this is well into the 20th C., and closer to our time, the combination of recentness + greater numbers means that the majority of millefiori beads are 20th C. beads.

The composite center of the cane element you show is quite different from the brecciated glass Carl shows. Your cane has a consistent longitudinal pattern, and pieces from one end of the parent cane would look reasonably similar to a piece from the other end of the cane. With breccia glass, the fragments are small, jagged broken fragments, and are discontinuous in the glass pudding—so the pattern, even though it is stretched and miniaturized, results in continually evolving variations in the conformation of the jagged pieces-in-a-matrix look; and cane pieces are far from identical. It is a random feature added to what are usually thought to be predictable creations—pictorial canes.

So, the answer to your question is that your cane and Carl's beads are reasonably close in time; but made very differently.

By the way, "murine" ("moo-REE-neh") is plural. If you want to speak of one piece, it is a "murina" ("moo-REE-nah").

I hope this helps. Jamey



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Re: Re: Venetian Millefiori Beads - Time Ranges and Styles
Re: Re: Venetian Millefiori Beads - Time Ranges and Styles -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carole Morris Post Reply
11/02/2009, 01:02:39

Hi Jamey
I agree, but murrine and murrina with double 'r'
Hope you are well
Cheers
Carole



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I stand corrected!
Re: Re: Re: Venetian Millefiori Beads - Time Ranges and Styles -- Carole Morris Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
11/02/2009, 13:42:55



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THANK YOU !!!!!!!
Re: Re: Venetian Millefiori Beads - Time Ranges and Styles -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: ancient beads Post Reply
11/02/2009, 13:49:50



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