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Posted by: lindabd Post Reply
07/12/2021, 10:10:55

Hello eveyone,

I hope that you have all emerged unscathed from - everything.

In recent months I've acquired these three disparate things, all of which I have questions about.

The belt I'm told is "Plains Indian". Is this likely to be true? If so, what tribe? The seed beads are exceedingly lovely. Strung on what looks like grass.

The carved bone pendant is perhaps a Pende Ikhoko? Is it likely to be a reproduction or an older object.

The two fancy millefiori I assume are Venetian? I believe I've seen similar beads on this site but I've been unable to locate the thread. Moretti maybe?

Many thanks for having a look.

IMG_1830.jpg (161.7 KB)  1_vv.jpg (109.8 KB)  


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"fancy millefiori"
Re: bead id help -- lindabd Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: napoleone Post Reply
07/12/2021, 12:09:34

Hi,
the two "fancy millefiori" are blown beads from Murano. They are not made by Ercole Moretti but by some independent glassblowers, and you can see many different types in Murano glass shops. Here are some of mine, made by an artist in Murano about twelve years ago.
Giorgio

501_ridotta.jpg (231.3 KB)  


Modified by napoleone at Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 12:10:58

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BOOM! Thank you!
Re: "fancy millefiori" -- napoleone Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lindabd Post Reply
07/12/2021, 19:51:51



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BOOM! Thank you!
Re: "fancy millefiori" -- napoleone Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lindabd Post Reply
07/12/2021, 19:52:13



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A past discussion…
Re: bead id help -- lindabd Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Joyce Post Reply
07/12/2021, 22:21:35



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Just what I was looking for. Thank you Joyce!
Re: A past discussion… -- Joyce Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lindabd Post Reply
07/14/2021, 10:12:16



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Pende mask
Re: bead id help -- lindabd Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Hans06 Post Reply
07/13/2021, 00:07:57

The introvert Pende mask is a nice traditional bone carving. I think softened in time, but no clue about age.



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Horn vs. bone?
Re: bead id help -- lindabd Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
07/13/2021, 08:43:46

Could the Pende mask be carved from a section of horn (probably water buffalo or cattle) rather than a bone?



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I don't think horn Rosanna...unless it's a horn I've not seen before..
Re: Horn vs. bone? -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lindabd Post Reply
07/14/2021, 20:25:32



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Re: bead id help
Re: bead id help -- lindabd Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: petrusgeorgius Post Reply
07/13/2021, 11:44:49

About the pendant : the inside of an old bone is not black or dark , I think it is made from ivory , a smaller tooth than of an elephant , probably an hippopotamus tooth . The patina look so real that it is certainly not horn of any kind nor bone . The pendant could not be old but the material can be . If people are spending time to produce fake artefacts likes this one , I am quite certain they never reach this level of patina .
Pierre -



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Wart hog tusk is another possibility - REVISED
Re: Re: bead id help -- petrusgeorgius Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
07/14/2021, 11:34:24

There is a good identification guide for the various types of ivory and ivory substitutes:

https://www.aaps-journal.org/articles/WWF-Ivory-1992.pdf

Regarding my Pende maskette - memory lapse - I was thinking of some other beads that appear to be warthog tusk, not the maskette!



Modified by Rosanna at Thu, Jul 15, 2021, 16:19:42

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Pix of my Pende maskette
Re: Wart hog tusk is another possibility - REVISED -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
07/14/2021, 13:02:01

RFPende1Jul2021.jpg (27.1 KB)  RFPende2Jul2021.jpg (39.0 KB)  


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Re: Pix of my Pende maskette
Re: Pix of my Pende maskette -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lindabd Post Reply
07/14/2021, 20:35:36

Thank you for posting Rosanna, The grain in this material looks to be quite fine and dense. Like ivory. The grain in my pendant is less fine I think.
I wonder it could be a section of antler?



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The Pende Face Pendants I have seen have been elephant ivory.
Re: Pix of my Pende maskette -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
07/15/2021, 13:37:46



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Agreed - see revised comment above
Re: The Pende Face Pendants I have seen have been elephant ivory. -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
07/15/2021, 16:20:51



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Fun Warthog facts
Re: Wart hog tusk is another possibility - REVISED -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
07/14/2021, 16:16:08

From Wikipedia:
The common warthog is a medium-sized species, with a head-and-body length ranging from 0.9 to 1.5 metres (2 feet 11 inches to 4 feet 11 inches), and shoulder height from 63.5 to 85 cm (2 ft 1 in to 2 ft 9 1/2 in).

Common warthog ivory is taken from the constantly growing canine teeth. The tusks, particularly the upper set, work in much the same way as elephant tusks with all designs scaled down. Tusks are carved predominantly for the tourist trade in east and southern Africa.

warthogskull.jpg (34.8 KB)  warthog.jpg (48.7 KB)  


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Thank you for the interesting reference article!
Re: Wart hog tusk is another possibility - REVISED -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lindabd Post Reply
07/14/2021, 21:06:24



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Re: Re: bead id help
Re: Re: bead id help -- petrusgeorgius Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lindabd Post Reply
07/14/2021, 20:29:30

Thank you for your response. I wondered if the bone material had not been burnt inside for some reason. The interior looks scorched.
I'm unfamiliar with hippo teeth and warthog tusks.
Does anyone out there have examples of these materials carved and used as beads or pendants?



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Warthog ivory beads
Re: Re: bead id help -- petrusgeorgius Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
07/15/2021, 17:08:24

Trying to redeem myself here - the presumed warthog tusk ivory items in my collection are these fairly large beads (scale is in mm).

I found a picture of walrus tooth vs. warthog tusk that appears to confirm warthog as the material.

WarthogIvoryBeads.jpg (24.6 KB)  WalrusWathogTusks.jpg (68.4 KB)  


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