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Andean beads -- help needed
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Posted by: Karlis Post Reply
06/30/2020, 13:41:47

I was sent several images of beads in the Andean collections of a Japanese museum for comment. Most of them are typical Spanish Colonial types but those on one strand are problematic regarding their age and method of manufacture.

Here is the strand. Most of the beads are wound. I do not know if the brass ones are actual brass or coated with it.

The one bead appears to have a thin layer of copper on the surface of its perforation.

Has anyone seen similar beads or know where and when they were made?

Another problematic group follows.

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Re: Andean beads -- help needed
Re: Andean beads -- help needed -- Karlis Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Karlis Post Reply
06/30/2020, 13:56:56

Here are two beads that appear to have been made by placing a small gob of molten glass in a mold and then pushing a rod into it to create the perforation.

Has anyone any information on these beads?

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Re: Odd Andean beads
Re: Re: Andean beads -- help needed -- Karlis Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
07/01/2020, 06:03:36

Hello Karlis,

In 1980 (if I recall correctly), when early-contact trade beads were coming out of Peru, Elizabeth Harris composed a short article for the newsletter of the Los Angles Bead Society—describing an unusual group of small glass beads, that appeared to have been made by piercing a glob of glass. She theorized that these were locally-made by artisans (possibly metalsmiths) who may have reduced trade beads to powder, melted this, and made these beads by placing the glob onto a conical surface, and manually pierced each bead. Most or all of these beads were translucent green (or greenish-yellow). I think Elizabeth gave me one—but I have no ideas where it is now.

Slightly later in time, Marvin Smith challenged Elizabeth's proposition, and said these were simple wound glass beads—and may have even been the same beads mentioned in the notebooks of Columbus. I quickly wrote to Marvin and said the beads in-question were not "wound," and appeared to have been made exactly as Elizabeth suggested. (Nevertheless, it might be possible that the glass was derived from those wound glass beads.)

These small green beads were found in a Peruvian strand that was probably mainly small faceted seven-layer chevron beads and/or Nueva Cádiz beads. These had been brought out of Peru by a Peruvian lady (whose name escapes me at the moment, but whom I met more than once). She sold some of these necklaces to Liza Wataghani—who, in turn, sold them to L.B Jones of the Cottonlandia Museum. (I was with Liza when this occurred, and spoke to L.B. on the phone that day.) So, these strands were most-likely studied by Marvin Smith and Mary Elizabeth Good, and included in their book on the Museum collections (1982).

I appraised the Jones Collection for his widow; and I went to Mississippi to document all of the bead holdings at the Museum in 2000 (or 2001). I don't recall that any of the small green beads were included. The Bead Society produced a book of bead articles from their newsletters—and I suppose Elizabeth's essay was included. I will check this if/when I come across that volume. Or when I search through my archived newsletters.

Jamey



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Thank you, Jamey
Re: Re: Odd Andean beads -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Karlis Post Reply
07/05/2020, 11:50:16



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You are welcome. I hope this is helpful.
Re: Thank you, Jamey -- Karlis Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
07/06/2020, 06:16:33



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Re: Re: Andean beads -- help needed/edit
Re: Re: Andean beads -- help needed -- Karlis Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: AnneLFG Post Reply
07/21/2020, 14:51:08

The light turquoise blue transparent bead at the bottom [#1571-198 under it] looks to me like it perhaps used to have raised same color "eyes" dotting the surface?? Maybe I'm just imagining things but it reminds me of some very old and very worn "mulberry" beads- usually clear, opaque white or cobalt blue traded into N.America early on like ~1600's. I'm not saying it "is" a mulberry bead.

EDIT: Started to look up Francisco de Soto Travel routes and related associated documented Trade Beads w/ any Site references. Was looking for any similar Trade Beads to yours, as I'm sure you have also. Side note: It is mighty frustrating to see that Archeology is tainted by what appears to be possible fraud- as was evident in one Fla. excavation with obvious New India-Made Chevrons being showcased as found on proposed de Soto excavation site. The good news is that the Bead Research is advanced enough that obvious out of Place Trade Beads can be readily recognized.

Bead lover, collector since Age 15, semi-retired had wholesale/retail bead, folk art, tribal art store Lost and Found Gallery for 25 yrs. in DT Greensboro, NC

Modified by AnneLFG at Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 23:52:43

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Re: Re: Re: Andean beads -- help needed/Photo
Re: Re: Re: Andean beads -- help needed/edit -- AnneLFG Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: AnneLFG Post Reply
07/24/2020, 00:26:13

From "African Trade Beads" Catalog & Reference Picture Collections I found some examples of what are being called Dutch Mulberry Beads, (17th-18th Century), and they are showing some similar colors to the bead I commented on earlier in the thread (color is difficult to match in this situation though). As stated previously I believe I can detect faint traces of very worn same color raised eyes or bumps on that particular bead..?? It's so difficult when you can't see the bead in person and look at it with magnification, of course!

Anne

Bead lover, collector since Age 15, semi-retired had wholesale/retail bead, folk art, tribal art store Lost and Found Gallery for 25 yrs. in DT Greensboro, NC

Modified by AnneLFG at Fri, Jul 24, 2020, 00:31:27

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Re: Re: Andean beads -- help needed
Re: Re: Andean beads -- help needed -- Karlis Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Jerri P Post Reply
07/22/2020, 08:33:17

Hi there. I seem to have some similar beads that came (according to the seller) from Madagascar. Supposedly 'witch doctor's' beads, they were strung along with the typical late 19th/early 20th Century beads but of course I've no way of knowing where these glass 'donuts' originated. They really do look as if someone has poked a hole in a glob of molten glass with a stick.

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Re: Re: Re: Andean beads -- help needed
Re: Re: Re: Andean beads -- help needed -- Jerri P Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Bill B Post Reply
07/23/2020, 05:37:47

Does anyone know the origin of these pierced glass beads? Also is it possible to see an image of the down side of the perforation? I have seen them in early glass bead collections for Peru and Ecuador but they are green. I have not seen these colors previously.
thanks
Bill



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Re: Re: Re: Re: Andean beads -- help needed
Re: Re: Re: Re: Andean beads -- help needed -- Bill B Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: petrusgeorgius Post Reply
07/23/2020, 10:15:53

look like beads from Ghana , made from recycled glass . green , brown from beer bottles , blue from eau de Seltz ( sparkilng water ) or ether bottles . I have some of them , which directly came from Mali , to France ( Bordeaux ) . still exist , nowadays



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Re: Pierced hole beads -back view
Re: Re: Re: Andean beads -- help needed -- Jerri P Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Jerri P Post Reply
07/24/2020, 03:30:10

The backs of these are quite pitted and gritty, which does suggest a glob of molten glass perhaps dropped onto a stone and then pierced with a stick? Good point Petrusgeorgius, about the re-cycled glass colours. Hadn't thought of that. (Sorry about delay, still on a steep learning curve with image re-sizing tool :)

DSC05633(1).jpg (172.8 KB)  


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Re: Re: Pierced hole beads -back view
Re: Re: Pierced hole beads -back view -- Jerri P Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Jerri P Post Reply
07/24/2020, 03:32:13

Oh God! So sorry! Back to the drawing board. Can't understand how I got it right yesterday.



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Re: Re: Pierced hole beads -back view
Re: Re: Pierced hole beads -back view -- Jerri P Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Bill B Post Reply
07/24/2020, 06:34:41

Thanks, I downloaded the image and was able to see it just fine. The bottoms are exactly how I hoped they would look. Rough, probably because they were on a hard surface when the beads are pierced. Has any one seen these beads being made?



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Pierced-Glob Glass Beads
Re: Re: Re: Andean beads -- help needed -- Jerri P Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
07/24/2020, 12:35:40

Manually piercing a glob of molten glass with a pointed implement may be one of the oldest methods for making glass beads; and might be practiced by any "primitive" glass industry or cottage industry. And such beads might be ancient, or made last week.

The problem of identifying a possible origin is the same situation we face with plain wound beads: they are all more-alike than they are different or distinctive. At least with wound beads we can sometimes tell whether the glass was furnace-worked or lampworked—and that can be a useful clue. Sometimes the glass itself can provide a clue.

Nevertheless, just as the Krobos recycle bottle glass—because it is avaiilable and practically free, most people would be in a similar circumstance—and have industrial bottle glass available to them.

JDA.



Modified by Beadman at Mon, Jul 27, 2020, 13:48:21

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Interesting to see similar beads from another cultural area and another time.
Re: Re: Re: Andean beads -- help needed -- Jerri P Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Karlis Post Reply
07/27/2020, 15:47:21



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