Posted by: AnneLFG  Post Reply
03/07/2019, 04:16:35
Hi All, I am unpacking crates of beads from a recent move and came across strands of Pumtek beads that I purchased in the early 1990's up by the Burmese border and also in Northern Thailand. The strands are varied, and none resemble the next to my eye.I have looked over some of the published material on Old VS new VS Pumtek from India...however I am still not clear. So I'm going to attempt to post a few pics- if I can figure out how, and get some feedback please. Thank you ahead of time
Honestly- no clue how to post these pics so am doing one TEST pics
OK It seems to work as copy & paste, but NOT trying to do that. Yikes my Son is going to have to help me figure this out. For me it's working now just to click the link, so I hope this will work... https://i.imgur.com/RCwfcQz.jpg https://i.imgur.com/fvvrf7k.jpg https://i.imgur.com/IUYzQpz.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Sc8yZsd.jpg https://i.imgur.com/dMuw7Mg.jpg https://i.imgur.com/iiQJx4d.jpg https://i.imgur.com/zTK5iFr.jpg
Bead lover, collector since Age 15, semi-retired had wholesale/retail bead, folk art, tribal art store Lost and Found Gallery for 25 yrs. in DT Greensboro, NC
Modified by AnneLFG at Thu, Mar 07, 2019, 20:32:58
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Posted by: odan Post Reply
03/07/2019, 07:11:32
Well... to me, This looks like some of the newer ones. typical 1990's
Usually...the older beads show more ware around the Perf's and the surface is usually smoother.
I really don't think there are enough photos to make a good guess.
Photos....I use photoshop. make the size no more then 160kb. I think that's the right size for BCN. More photos....show more beads too.
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Posted by: odan Post Reply
03/07/2019, 09:10:38
As you can see in these two photos...The older PT's have a smoother softer surface.
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Posted by: odan Post Reply
03/07/2019, 09:14:33
I picked these 3 out to show hoe cord and other beads next to a bead can over a long time ware an imprint on the end of a bead.
The younger PT's are rather...rough Hope this helps some. Not an expert. Odan…(real collector, not an actor )
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Posted by: AnneLFG Post Reply
03/07/2019, 21:58:18
Dear Odan, Thank you for your most helpful reply and examples. Several questions for you and anyone else that cares to assist: 1.) Are the three oblong beads in the left photo "New", Pumtek but just not really old Pumtek? Imitation Pumtek as in made recently in India from some other substance? 2.) Yes I can see the nice wear and surface luster on the three oblong beads on the right- and I am glad you are showing this as I am familiar with what Old glass beads look like, and signs of being worn/strung, and rubbing next to other beads for many decades or longer. However as far a "Opalized Palmwood" I have no clue as to how hard it is, or how to tell when you are looking at genuine Opalized Palmwood?... Which leads me to my next question: 3.) I am noticing online from probably 5 sellers claiming Burmese Pumtek or Pyu Pumtek that the surfaces look a certain way: dots and also a linear pattern that is a grain of the material (NOT the SURFACE SCRATCHES from maker's marks). Do the dots/lines indicate REAL Opalized Palmwood material?? Assuming Pyu Pumtek relates to the Pyu City States of upper Burma 2nd Century BC to mid 11th C and that this Pyu Pumtek is the Oldest and therefore most valuable? 4.) also Assuming there are various ages of genuine Opalized Palmwood- from Ancient to Antique but still Genuine? Is this correct? What do you go by to differentiate the relative age of the OLD. I know you pointed out obvious wear at the bead hole, and patina. Are there patterns and shapes only seen in certain time groups also? I am going to take more photos soon. Those were a few pics from a few odd loose beads or a few strung beads where we were trying to see the core material if chipped or the surface patterns with a macro. I am seeing multiple beads that may be possibilities for being genuinely Old and worn- and it's funny because they are in sacks that I thought contained the newer "Pumtek". So far every strand is different, though some are "mixed" looks like. But we'll see what they look like under scrutiny. Thank you so much, you've been very helpful. Your beads, BTW are very beautiful.
Anne
Bead lover, collector since Age 15, semi-retired had wholesale/retail bead, folk art, tribal art store Lost and Found Gallery for 25 yrs. in DT Greensboro, NC
Modified by AnneLFG at Fri, Mar 08, 2019, 00:06:39
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Posted by: odan Post Reply
03/08/2019, 09:37:56
In the first set of photos the beads in top row are older Pumtek
The second lower photo in that post are the 80's 90's vintage.
In the second post... The top photo shows newer beads and lower photo shows ware found on older beads. Opalized palm is very unique in bead making material. It looks like a bundle of straw bound very tightly.
When viewed length wise it will appear as groves or even scratches.
From the end grain....like hundreds of tiny holes or dots.
Not all "old" Pumtek beads are so worn at the ends. There's one seller on ebay, Pumtekman, That represents this type of bead very well. Not sure if he's a member here but he could prob answer any more technical questions. I see a lot of misrepresentation of this bead from sellers in Asia.
Hope this helps
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Posted by: AnneLFG Post Reply
03/10/2019, 18:40:37
Thank you so much for the additional information. I have not had a chance to take more photos, but will soon, and am looking through material with a new "eye" thanks to you and Jamey.
Bead lover, collector since Age 15, semi-retired had wholesale/retail bead, folk art, tribal art store Lost and Found Gallery for 25 yrs. in DT Greensboro, NC
Modified by AnneLFG at Mon, Mar 11, 2019, 00:47:18
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Posted by: AnneLFG Post Reply
03/13/2019, 18:31:18
SLOWLY But surely getting More Photos. Our good camera is Kaput, out Video Cam does shoot Macro. BUT our lighting is awful. SO the BEAD COLOR is all wrong due to lighting and won't color correct. Frustrating to not have the correct equipment. Just keep that in mind. From another Batch FIRST Bead: PTA1 SECOND Bead: PTA5 PTA1:Very smooth surface, color is medium and darker than appears. Seems to have 7 lines end to end and an equatorial line. I know some of my others have 6 not 7 lines so this is different.
PTA5: Smooth surface, dark, 6 lines end to end. Will post more ASAP.
Thanks, Anne PTA1: Link to Album of images PTA5: Another bead
Bead lover, collector since Age 15, semi-retired had wholesale/retail bead, folk art, tribal art store Lost and Found Gallery for 25 yrs. in DT Greensboro, NC
Modified by AnneLFG at Thu, Mar 14, 2019, 22:47:39
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Posted by: AnneLFG Post Reply
03/14/2019, 22:45:39
OK here is the the third bead, picked for it's appearance. I know it's not "pretty" but wanted to get some feedback. Please note that I posted PTA1 and PTA5 the other day, not exactly in correct order but I am learning. At least I can link an Album now....one bead album at a time, slowly...ha Third Bead: PTA2 Fourth Bead: PTA3 Link to Album PTA2 Link to Album PTA3 Thank You for you feedback everyone,
Anne
Bead lover, collector since Age 15, semi-retired had wholesale/retail bead, folk art, tribal art store Lost and Found Gallery for 25 yrs. in DT Greensboro, NC
Modified by AnneLFG at Fri, Mar 15, 2019, 00:31:07
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Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
03/10/2019, 13:15:46
Hello Anne, I recommend a search here, as I have posted multiple times on pumtek beads—having been the first American bead researcher to see, collect, and study them. Also, read my article posted here, about ancient Burmese beads, that are called Pyu or Tircul Here's one series:
http://beadcollector.net/cgi-bin/anyboard.cgi?fvp=/openforum/&cmd=iYz&aK=64443&iZz=64443&gV=0&kQz=&aO=1&iWz=0 Also, if you go to my FaceBook page, you can find a long series of posts, where I show most of my pumtek collection—including antique specimens/necklaces, and the modern editions from the 1990s and later. By the way, pumtek beads are not "from India." They were made in Burma (whether old or recent). However, the beads we began to receive in 1983 came to us from Mizoram, India—because that is where the Burmese tribal people who had pumtek beads had emigrated. Be well, Jamey
Related link: http://beadcollector.net/cgi-bin/anyboard.cgi?fvp=/openforum/&cmd=iYz&aK=64443&iZz=64443&gV=0&kQz=&aO=1&iWz=0
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Posted by: AnneLFG Post Reply
03/10/2019, 19:15:46
Thank you for the links and information Jamey. I find the "Search" feature of BeadCollector difficult to use, and usually resort to a search through Google of BeadCollector. Probably some oversight on my part, but at least I've found a way around it.
I did find your early information about these beads, and did read it, and some other material. I'm sure I have not absorbed the finer points yet, though. I'm sure you grow weary of repeating information for decades, but I have to give you Props for always coming off as happy to help, and happy to share your knowledge, and believe me, that's much appreciated by me and many others. I am going to continue reading and looking at Pics. as I've only grazed the surface. GTK that the Indian Pumtek (you received in 1983) were made by Burmese people that had emigrated to Mizoram, India. I did have the misconception that the more recent were simply bone beads dyed to look like the Old Burmese Pumtek, and an Indian "knock off". I can see on a map how close these two areas are, and this puts a new perspective on this context of Ancient, Old and Newer bead production. Thanks again. I'll be back with more pics soon. Myanmar Model Li Li Kyah Khaing wearing Pumtek beads in Photo shoot for "Idea Magazine" on "We Love Mizo Dress" Facebook page:
https://scontent.fric1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14993332_203076150096169_790456977681666864_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ht=scontent.fric1-2.fna&oh=c03b94c73e383b6ab238d7677fda5a95&oe=5D2683BF Also BTW NorthEastStyle on Instagram shows some great Traditional Dress and Beads, although often in a Magazine Style rather than more natural setting. But still many beautiful beads: https://www.instagram.com/northeastyle/ https://www.instagram.com/p/Bo1Ht6zl5LT/ Anne
Bead lover, collector since Age 15, semi-retired had wholesale/retail bead, folk art, tribal art store Lost and Found Gallery for 25 yrs. in DT Greensboro, NC
Modified by AnneLFG at Mon, Mar 11, 2019, 11:27:43
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Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
03/13/2019, 11:27:10
Also, if you view my FaceBook series, you will see a few recent photos of women wearing traditional clothing and long pumtek necklaces. I would post a link here, but today FB is acting wonky, and is unresponsive. JDA.
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Posted by: Luann Udell Post Reply
03/15/2019, 16:01:03
It's not that I don't enjoy browsing your timeline :^) but is your pumteck collection in a specific photo album, timeline, etc.? I started to scroll through and then I got caught up in everything else you posted! :^D Luann
p.s. What Anne said about your patience with our constant stream of requests for stuff you've already talked about! :^)
Luann Udell
artist & writer
Ancient stories retold in modern artifacts
LuannUdell.com
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Posted by: AnneLFG Post Reply
03/15/2019, 19:12:10
LuAnn, Hi I had the same trouble, though I found one album that I believe had one or two photos. Perhaps he has a second older FB? Or?? Jamey, Just tell us how to negotiate your FP Pics and I'll happily look again! I did find LOTS of Info with wonderful Pics in BC.net. Was Blown Away by by the 8/17/2008 post you made speaking on and sharing some special Pumtek beads that Russ Nobbs shared with you-(may he be Resting in beaded Peace). They were large oblong beads that only had designs on the fossil palm wood areas, and the other was a light Opalized material- where opal had been laid maybe in the split of the wood (no dots or grain like some Pumtek, at least where "white", and section resisted being decorated. A lovely effect! If I ever get ahead financially I must have some of these beads!! Beadman 8/18/2008: http://beadcollector.net/openforum/uploads/RN_new_pumtek.jpg more from same page by Hendrick 8/18/2008:
http://beadcollector.net/openforum/uploads/nograinex2.jpg
Bead lover, collector since Age 15, semi-retired had wholesale/retail bead, folk art, tribal art store Lost and Found Gallery for 25 yrs. in DT Greensboro, NC
Modified by AnneLFG at Fri, Mar 15, 2019, 19:13:18
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Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
03/28/2019, 10:53:50
The photo essay on pumtek beads began on June 10, 2017. You go to PHOTOS, to My Photos, and scroll down. The photos are shown in reverse order, of course. So you begin with the last one, that is the first. Here's a screenshot to help you recognize the series. J.
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Posted by: AnneLFG Post Reply
03/29/2019, 04:36:03
Bead lover, collector since Age 15, semi-retired had wholesale/retail bead, folk art, tribal art store Lost and Found Gallery for 25 yrs. in DT Greensboro, NC
Modified by AnneLFG at Fri, Mar 29, 2019, 04:36:56
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Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
04/01/2019, 15:13:00
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