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TOO NICE TO THROW AWAY!
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Posted by: lopacki Post Reply
12/04/2015, 12:58:14


Here is a handful of some of the beads we will have at Tucson this year. These beads are Bactrian that are 3 to 4 thousand years old this selection shows some super beads with beautiful patterns.

If you are use face book join the group "The Lopacki Collection" we have a selection of many of the items we will bring to the show.

Hope you enjoy
All my best ........ Danny

eyes_small.jpg (141.4 KB)  


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probably not
Re: TOO NICE TO THROW AWAY! -- lopacki Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: pipane2 Post Reply
12/05/2015, 21:19:50

There is old agate beads from central Asia dating from about 200 BC and more, those usually show very specific patina and shape... see pictures, they are quite valuable and chinese people love them to the point that many Afghans and Pakistanis dealers have open shops in China recently.
Price range from 800$ to more than 6000$! And keep on rising...
Unfortunately it appears none of yours is that ancient.
Pics to illustrate how should their patina look like.

1_Antique_Agate_Beads_from_Westnern_China_Pipane.jpg (121.1 KB)  1_old_agate_beads_Pipane_.jpg (49.3 KB)  


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Re: probably not
Re: probably not -- pipane2 Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: pipane2 Post Reply
12/05/2015, 21:25:07

1_23_1.jpg (146.0 KB)  1_Carved_Agate_bead_Pipane.jpg (91.6 KB)  


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Re: Re: probably not
Re: Re: probably not -- pipane2 Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lopacki Post Reply
12/06/2015, 08:40:55

Pipane,

I have many beads that are not as fine as the beads in my image most of the beads I have show signs of damage and or patina. My reason for posting the image I posted is because the beads in my hand are in nearly perfect condition which is very rare when they are as old as these.

Seeing as though the people I purchase this type bead from live where these beads are found and they know I am looking for the best examples they offer me beads they set aside for buyers like me. Many people think like you do "it can't be that old look how perfect it is", well they are in fact what I say they are so if your at the Tucson show stop by our room and have a look.

Below is an image of some beads I am in the process of purchasing some of these beads will be in perfect condition which I will set aside as extra special.

Frederick II once said to me in a conservation that us crazy bead freaks will spend thousands of dollars on specific beads so we can make a thousand dollar strand!!

All my best ....... Danny

IMG_0521.JPG (122.5 KB)  


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aged patina
Re: Re: Re: probably not -- lopacki Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Judy Post Reply
12/06/2015, 08:56:12

My feeling is that beads that have been worn over a long period of time, will reflect that in the condition of the surface and the wear of the perforation. However, beads that have been buried for thousands of years and have not been worn much will have an 'newer' appearance. I have seen this in trade beads and ancient stone beads. Also beads that have only been worn for important ceremonies will not show a worn surface. It's not a simple thing. Personally I have to have the beads in my hands before I can form an opinion.



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Judy wish you could hold these you would love them.
Re: aged patina -- Judy Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lopacki Post Reply
12/06/2015, 09:59:26



Modified by lopacki at Sun, Dec 06, 2015, 09:59:47

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Also depends how much and what kind of soil contact the beads had before someone excavated the grave
Re: aged patina -- Judy Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
12/06/2015, 10:33:58



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Not all come from graves!!
Re: Also depends how much and what kind of soil contact the beads had before someone excavated the grave -- beadiste Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lopacki Post Reply
12/06/2015, 14:41:30

I would say the many of this type bead are found in places other than graves, I would not be surprised if the majority are found either in stashes or separately as surface/near surface finds.

Here is an example within about five miles of where Suzi and I live one of the local ranchers while out on horseback spotted an old pottery vessel laying on top of the ground, when he investigated, the pot was from the Mimbres culture and to his amazement it was full of turquoise beads. There is now a large copper mine in the area and it is known for the quality turquoise that has been unearthed, needless to say the Mimbres Indians that lived around here would have utilized this beautiful stone and there would have been those that were bead makers, perhaps this pot was a storage vessel owned by one of the bead makers.

This said donít think all of the wonderful stone beads we deal in are from graves again I would think that the majority are not. IMHO

All my best ....... Danny

P.S. Over the years I have found more than a few ancient stone beads on anthills even some as surface finds.



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Bactrian beads from private collection
Re: Not all come from graves!! -- lopacki Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
12/06/2015, 15:12:46



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Nice bead
Re: Bactrian beads from private collection -- beadiste Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
12/06/2015, 15:16:41

Bactrian_Bead.jpg (98.9 KB)  


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Gonur beads
Re: Not all come from graves!! -- lopacki Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
12/06/2015, 17:43:10

http://mongols37.rssing.com/browser.php?indx=13714591&item=584

An article by Kate Fitz Gibbonof Anahita Gallery states:

"Their tiny, newborn bones are so fragile that they crumble at a touch. The beautiful Bronze Age beads from plundered sites in Afghanistan have long fascinated me. Most often, buried bead materials are found in vessels placed close to the body, and as any stringing material has long since disintegrated with age, it is not even possible to guess how they were worn. In the Gonur Tepe palace, an unexpected find of a youth buried inside a large ceramic vessel included not only rich grave goods, but also clues as to how some beads were worn. Skull and neck vertebrae were held together with hardened mud, and as the dirt was removed, lapis, talc and a single, inch and a half long carnelian bead carved in chevron patterns were found encircling the neck. A single gold earring was embedded near the ear,

and a half-dozen large, finely polished banded agate beads lay in the bottom of the vessel in which the youth was buried.


Related link: http://mongols37.rssing.com/browser.php?indx=13714591&item=584
Modified by beadiste at Sun, Dec 06, 2015, 17:45:15

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Re: aged patina
Re: aged patina -- Judy Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Odan Post Reply
12/06/2015, 16:51:24

I see this all the time. If a bead has no ware or a super smooth patina from being worn for centuries people think they are fakes. I think it shows a lack of knowledge of beads when someone sees no ware and says new...repo...etc.
It is best to see them in hand but that is still not a criteria for dating beads. \
As was stated...some beads didn't get a super cool cord sawing or lots of body sweat.
Kamol told me years ago he has problems with lots of collectors when it comes to ancient stones, that many buyers will just look once and say these aren't ancient.
That's why when I sell beads I have to photograph the perf's and even then I get 90% of people say the beads aren't ancient due to lack of ware at the perforations.
So many of these beads were only worn for special occasions and very little ware is present on these beads.
Many times these beads were stashed. and traded for other useful items.
Some day there will be a cool way to date beads...maybe a hot pin inside the perf and if it smells like dirt its real ???
Who knows what the answer is {:o



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And let's not forget about the Anahita collection...
Re: aged patina -- Judy Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
12/06/2015, 17:28:41


Related link: http://www.anahitagallery.com/ancient-beads/ancient-beads-2

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regarding age of these types
Re: TOO NICE TO THROW AWAY! -- lopacki Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: TASART Post Reply
12/07/2015, 05:30:45

First of all, it is close to impossible to get an accurate feel for the age of an Agate bead from a photo alone...too many factors to consider, lighting and computer settings can give a false reading image from one screen to another, the photo may not be correct as to the true nature of the bead as well....then we have the wear issue, was a bead interred as soon as it was made or was it worn for generations? Was it gently worn or was it abused? Was it buried in an acidic setting or highly alkaline soil? Lots of factors that can change how a bead appears today...Dr Mark Kenoyer uses perforation impressions to help determine how it is manufactured, leading an assumption as to the date it was made (unfortunately not 100% reliable) most other bead "experts" have to use personal experience and in-person examination to form an opinion....but that's all it is, an opinion.....too hard to give a 100% guaranteed, factual idea on the true date of any of these....we have to trust our instincts and experience when dealing with these......I have found that even the most honest and experienced dealer/seller can fall short of an accurate analysis....just my humble opinion



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Academic papers using modern analysis to determine sources
Re: regarding age of these types -- TASART Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
12/07/2015, 11:24:29

It took me awhile to figure out how to download the papers from the Academia site (gawd, what what a mess, it had be gibbering like a chimp - not to mention the privacy issues). But they're quite interesting and informative.

"Alison Carter" seems to be the name necessary to search on from the Home page in order to actually be able to download the PDFs.

https://www.academia.edu/233708/LA-ICP-MS_Analysis_of_Agate_and_Carnelian_Analysis_of_Geological_Sources_from_Central_South_and_Southeast_Asia_and_Beads_from_Iron_Age_sites_in_Cambodia

https://www.academia.edu/355169/INAA_of_agate_sources_and_artifacts_from_the_Indus_Helmand_and_Thailand_Regions



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Re: regarding age of these types, Thomas!--------
Re: regarding age of these types -- TASART Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Adjichristine Post Reply
12/07/2015, 12:17:57

I trust your humble opinion!!



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Re: Re: regarding age of these types, Thomas!--------
Re: Re: regarding age of these types, Thomas!-------- -- Adjichristine Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: pipane2 Post Reply
12/12/2015, 04:21:24

My bad, they could be old after alL. I am the first to complain about people throwing opinion without close examination.


http://www.ancientbead.com/Old_banded_agate_beads.html

http://www.ancientbead.com/Chung_DZI.html

Cheers

pip



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Some of mine (1)
Re: TOO NICE TO THROW AWAY! -- lopacki Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carole Morris Post Reply
12/14/2015, 08:47:37

Real_Agates.String.jpg (35.1 KB)  


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Some of mine (2)
Re: TOO NICE TO THROW AWAY! -- lopacki Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carole Morris Post Reply
12/14/2015, 08:48:54

CM_agate_eye.jpg (64.0 KB)  


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Re: Some of mine (2)
Re: Some of mine (2) -- Carole Morris Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: pipane2 Post Reply
12/15/2015, 00:55:36

Nice...



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