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Anybody know what they are
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Posted by: monkeyrs6 Post Reply
06/14/2018, 10:39:56

I have inherited these beads but know nothing about them apart from that they are quite old. They look to be hand made as they are all ever so slightly different in shape. The colour seems to run through out the bead and the holes vary slightly. They are about 1cm in size and there is 108 of them on a thread with two more set lower. At first i thought they were glass or some sort of Jade now i have not got a clue.I was planing to sell them but can not find anything like them on the net. Any help on finding what they are would be a great help..Tim UK

DSC_0032_copy.jpg (105.4 KB)  DSC_0031_copy.jpg (88.9 KB)  


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Re: Anybody know what they are
Re: Anybody know what they are -- monkeyrs6 Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
06/14/2018, 21:00:13

~Chinese glass. Most likely made in Boshan for the Mandarin court in Peking sometime during the Ching Dynasty.

~Probably too small to be from a Mandarin Court Necklace, an insignia of rank. But I would have to see them in person to feel certain.

~108 has long been considered a sacred number and usually associated with a mala, a prayer bead necklace.



Modified by Frederick II at Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 12:38:29

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Re: Re: Anybody know what they are
Re: Re: Anybody know what they are -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: monkeyrs6 Post Reply
06/15/2018, 08:57:22

I had a thought that they were Chinese. Is there a name for this sort of bead so i can do some research ?. Are they glass or ceramic ? . I think they have been re-strung as the thread looks new.



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Re: Re: Re: Anybody know what they are
Re: Re: Re: Anybody know what they are -- monkeyrs6 Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lopacki Post Reply
06/15/2018, 09:40:04

These are made of glass to imitate Jadeite. I have some similar to these that are larger and most likely came from a court necklace. Nice beads.

Danny



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Boshan—yes..., Mandarin—no.
Re: Re: Anybody know what they are -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
06/20/2018, 23:46:48

The technical separation between antique and modern Chinese glass beads was a change in manufacture. Late Ming through Ching (or Xing) Dynasty beads were furnace-wound. The more modern beads have included lampworked beads—which was a specialty at Boshan. But the Boshan industry developed too late to have much or any effect upon the Manchu costume. So it is very unlikely that any lampworked Boshan beads would be found in Mandarin necklaces. I have seen them in FAKE Mandarin necklaces, however.

In terms of appearance, it is the lampworked Boshan glass beads that often feature flattened ends, forming a slightly squat oblate. Furnace wound beads can be oblate too, but they lack the tool-marks seen on lampwork beads. Furnace beads, as often as not, can be somewhat pear-shaped, having a rounded lower end and a pointy upper end.

JDA.



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Many Mandarin necklaces probably contain Boshan glass beads, in my opinion.
Re: Boshan—yes..., Mandarin—no. -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
06/23/2018, 23:29:12

I do not agree with Jamey's opinion that "the Boshan industry developed too late to have much or any effect upon the Manchu costume." Over the last 40 years or so, I have examined more than one hundred authentic Mandarin Court Necklaces, since buying and selling antique Chinese beads has been one of my specialties. I have observed that about half of the MCNs I have handled were made of glass beads. And therefore I reached the conclusion that a significant percentage of Mandarin Court Necklaces made during the Ching Dynasty were either made of glass or, at least, included some glass components. Glass was an inexpensive way to fulfill the color requirements indicating rank of the official wearing the necklace, as compared to coral, ivory, or semi-precious stones.

I am also certain that the MCNs with glass beads and components that I examined were not recent fakes. I became familiar with the parts and construction of authentic pieces by taking many of them apart.

Another piece of evidence supporting the use of Boshan glass in MCNs is the use of glass beads for the finials on Mandarin hats. The finials can be studied much more easily than MCNs since they have metal fittings that can be easily examined for their age appropriate construction and patina. Finials were made to coordinate with the necklaces, supporting a conclusion that glass was commonly used for MCNs.

Note: MCNs typically date from 1644 to 1912 (Ching Dynasty). Boshan glass dates from the 14th century, with Boshan glass beads especially coming into use in the 18th century under Qian Long (1736-1796). For more information see: "Chinese Glass Beads: New Evidence", by Peter Francis (www.thebeadsite.com/be02-ch.htm)…link courtesy of Rosanna.

Robert Liu's article: http://static1.squarespace.com/static/54a8ea9ae4b0d1cd06f46bba/t/54e524efe4b0bc89fe275d35/1424303343507/Orn36_4_ChineseGlassBeads.pdf

And: http://gotheborg.com/glossary/glass.shtml



Modified by Frederick II at Sun, Jun 24, 2018, 12:06:17

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Peter Francis' opinion on "Peking" Boshan glass beads used for MCN:
Re: Many Mandarin necklaces probably contain Boshan glass beads, in my opinion. -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
06/24/2018, 01:22:29

Boshan.jpg (34.5 KB)  


Modified by Frederick II at Mon, Jun 25, 2018, 20:33:16

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Lovely beads! Could we possibly see a photo of the whole strand?
Re: Anybody know what they are -- monkeyrs6 Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lindabd Post Reply
06/14/2018, 21:44:49



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Show a picture of the entire group. 108 plus two is off.
Re: Anybody know what they are -- monkeyrs6 Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
06/15/2018, 12:29:36

Try following leads by doing Google image searches. -Perhaps for "Antique Chinese glass beads imitating jade."

The size of beads used in malas has a larger range. Bead size for Mandarin Court Necklaces has nearly no range.
And, your beads are not completely round. So, please precisely remeasure length and width in mm or inches.



Modified by Frederick II at Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 14:00:54

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Flattened ends…
Re: Show a picture of the entire group. 108 plus two is off. -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
06/19/2018, 11:29:12

Your beads have slightly flattened ends. This is a characteristic with Chinese beads I have run into more often in Maesai, the Golden Triangle.



Modified by Frederick II at Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 11:29:55

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Re: Flattened ends…
Re: Flattened ends… -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: monkeyrs6 Post Reply
06/21/2018, 08:51:12

Again thanks for the information. Funny Looked up Maesai, its Thailand. Im off to Bangkok this summer with the Family then we are off Island Hopping in the south. Is it possible the Beads came out of Burma as my Grandad was active there during the war. He was known for picking up stuff that did not belong to him, i also have a christening cup and other bits that came from a bombed out church in Anzio, there was also a Japanese sword and an old Enfield rifle that i no longer have. As for the beads they are 11 to 12mm across and around 9.5 to 10mm across the flats. I was thinking of splitting them up and selling them on flea Bay any idea on there value?. Thanks Tim



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We agree your beads are old & Chinese. But not everyone agrees about where & when they're made.
Re: Anybody know what they are -- monkeyrs6 Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
06/24/2018, 03:01:10



Modified by Frederick II at Sun, Jun 24, 2018, 15:25:09

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Green speckled glass bead finial on brass caddy
Re: Anybody know what they are -- monkeyrs6 Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
06/24/2018, 11:29:55

Pre-liberation China, likely 1920s-30s.

GreenSpeckled.jpg (253.5 KB)  


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Re: Green speckled glass bead finial on brass caddy
Re: Green speckled glass bead finial on brass caddy -- beadiste Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
06/24/2018, 12:03:32

The bead may be 20's to 30's. And I see it as very inferior to Tim's beads. Regarding the bead you are showing: Originally, a bead on this caddy would have been cleanly mounted. Not with solder -but with a head pin wire pressured into place. Therefore, the bead should be judged independently from the mounting.



Modified by Frederick II at Sun, Jun 24, 2018, 17:42:17

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