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Long and boring information about coral
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Posted by: brianbrian Post Reply
03/06/2008, 09:01:18

This information garnered, edited and translated from many Italian language sites on the internet. Much of the information by googling "corallo mediterraneo" or "corallo rosso" or "corallo sardo"

Mediterranean Coral (Corallium Rubrum)
Mediterranean coral has been fished at least since Phoenician times. In fact the Phoenicians had colonies both at Sciacca and Trapani in Sicily which were and are coral fishing (limited) and working places up to the present.

There is evidence of trade with India in Roman times when pearls were exchanged for coral. The Indians prized coral highly and the Romans prized pearls.Pliny wrote that “the Indians regard coral as highly as the Romans do pearls and the price of these varies with the importance that each people gives to them”


The trade in coral between the Mediterranean and Yemen was in the hands of the Egyptians. Ancient Sanskrit texts refer to corallium rubrum as alasandraka or alakandaka , this names indicates either the origin of the material or the merchants who traded it. Alexandria in Egypt was the point of exchange between the areas wher it was fished and the orient. In the mediaeval period between the 11th and 12th centuries the port of Aden in southern Arabia was the final point of exchange and the trade was mostly in the hands of Jewish merchants. In the 12th century Ahmed ibn Yousuf Al-Tifashi wrote that marjan (coral) was fished in the area of “Marsa al Khazer in the sea of Africa and also in the sea of France. There are no other kinds as fine, large and abundant as that which is found in these places…….it is exported from Marsa towards the east, to Yemen, India and other countries…..in Alexandria it is cleaned, drilled and polished.

Mediterranean coral is fished in Italy (Calabria, Campania, Lazio, Tuscany, Liguria, Sicily, Sardinia), Greece, Yugoslavia, Corsica, France, Spain, Morocco. This was the variety that was most extensively worked in the 19th C. Usually red, varying in tone from dark to vivid, very rarely occurs as pale pink.

In fact coral is no longer fished in most of these places. The main exceptions are Sardinia and North Africa, though I’m not sure exactly where in N. Africa. It’s likely that a lot of the fishing for coral that does go on is done illegally. Legal fishing for coral is done in Sardinia by divers using sub-acqua equipment. This ensures that coral is collected selectively and also limits the depth at which it is possible to collect.

Coral is still extensively worked in Torre del Greco near Naples. Here they use material from Sardinia and from Japan and from anywhere else that they can obtain it at a good price. Coral is also worked in Sardinia using local material and in Trapani and Sciacca to a limited extent, probably mostly using material from North Africa.

The average size of branch of Mediterranean coral is 20-25cm in height and 10-15 in width. The diameter of the sub branches ranges from 1-15mm. The weight of each branch is between 100-150 grams though they can reach a height of 60 cm and a weight of 1500g.
It is fished in the above mentioned areas (some of which are no longer productive) at a depth from 30/50m (usually low quality) up to more than 150m

Sciacca Coral
Intensively fished between 1875 and 1887, about 30 miles from Sciacca on the South West coast of Sicily at depths between 150 and 200 metres. Salmon red in colour, varying in tone from vivid to very pale, sometimes with yellowish, brown or black patches caused by the action of bacteria on the ferrous colouring component present in the coral.
It lay piled in huge quantities on the muddy bottom. The form of the coral branches were long and affusolati with an average thickness of around 7mm.

Japanese Coral
This was the most widely used raw material in Italian coral production, mostly at Torre del Greco, between the end of the C19th. and the beginning of the C20th.

4 separate species Corallium Japonicus, Elatius, Secundum, Kanojoi. The pricipal colours and tones are:

white “shiro” in transliterated Japanese ,

pinky white; pale pink also known as angel’s skin, “pelle d’angelo” in Italian, “boche” or “boke” in Japanese;

vivid red, “cerasuolo” in Italian, “momo’ in Japanese;

dark red, “moro” in Italian, “aka” in Japanese

The color in these corals always shows a spine or vein, “anima” in Italian, which is white in the red corals and red in the white and pink ones.

These corals are fished at a depth of over 200 metres and are made up of fan shaped branches. The average height of each branch is 30-40cm except cerasuolo which can reach 1m in height, and the diameter of the sub branches is circa 160mm. Fishing areas: in Japan; Tosa bay, Hachijo Island, the small island of Goto, Ogasawara island: in Formosa; the Pescadores Islands

Pacific Corals
Discovered between 1965 and 1979 and fished in different areas of the Pacific.

Midway (1965): white colour or pink with red dots or lines. Lives at a depth of 300-400m, medium sized fan shaped branches.

Garnet (1970): intense pink tending towards yellowish. Lives at a depth of 500-700m, branches simlar to those of mediterranean coral and flat and contorted sub branches.

Miss (1976): pink tending toward purple. Fan shaped branches and flattened sub branches between 5-10mm in thickness.
Deep Sea(1979): small branches are red in colour though the thicker the branches become the lighter the colour. The branches are fan like or with parallel trunks often flattened, about 50-70cm. This coral lives at a depth of 800-1500m.



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coral types
Re: Long and boring information about coral -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: brianbrian Post Reply
03/06/2008, 11:53:31

Colour differences between angel skin, japanese salmon colour and good colour mediterranean.

med&jap_with_white154.jpg (39.7 KB)  


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Re: coral types, Very impressive! Thank you so much!
Re: coral types -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: adjichristine Post Reply
03/06/2008, 12:29:40

This was certainly not boring! I learned alot. Thank you for taking the time! I appreciate it very much!



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Thank you, Chritsine for taking the time to read and comment.
Re: Re: coral types, Very impressive! Thank you so much! -- adjichristine Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: brianbrian Post Reply
03/07/2008, 04:20:24



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Re: Long and boring information about coral
Re: Long and boring information about coral -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: brianbrian Post Reply
03/07/2008, 01:12:23

attempt at a better picture

DSCN4688_edited.jpg (108.0 KB)  


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previous picture
Re: Re: Long and boring information about coral -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: brianbrian Post Reply
03/07/2008, 01:54:08

There are 3 types of coral which are clearly identifiable in the picture.

The darkest red is very good colour mediterranean coral. Sardinian coral is often like this. I think the colour is sometimes referred to as ox blood "sangue di bue" in Italian. There are, of course, other names for the same colour, just to make life difficult or interesting.

The large pink and salmon pink beads in the centre are Japanese coral, easily indentifiable by the white streaks which are part of the spine or soul "anima" which runs along the centre of Japanese coral branches. This is, in my experience, the most comon kind of Japanese coral. The descriptions of the Japanese varieties I have read talk about bright red "rosso vivo or cerasulo" (momo) and dark red "rosso scuro or moro di Giappone" (aka). The Japanese coral in the picture corresponds to neither description, neither bright nor dark, but the sources indicate that there is great variety in colouration within each species. This is true of coral whatever its origin but perhaps especially true of Japanese coral. I think we're talking about cerasuolo (momo) in this case. Partly because I remeber it is the most common and also because it's very common to find large beads and the branches of this kind of coral are particularly large.

If you look at the pictures that David posted in the thread "Another old coral" you will see that most of the beads, which are unusually large, are of the pink and salmon pink colour and that the largest beads in the two strands that Joyce? is holding are also pink salmon pink.

The strand running round the outside is also made up of pink beads but this time they are smaller and range between very pale pink, angel's skin "pelle d'angelo" to salmon pink. There are only two or three beads in the strand that are identifiable as Japanese coral in that they have the white spine running through them. The drilling often corresponds with the "anima" in an attempt to ensure that the white patches do not detract from the uniform colour of the outside of the bead.



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Japanese coral showing the "anima"
Re: Long and boring information about coral -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: brianbrian Post Reply
03/07/2008, 01:59:18

DSCN4766_edited.jpg (101.4 KB)  DSCN4767_edited.jpg (108.6 KB)  


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japanese coral probably from the base of the branch
Re: Long and boring information about coral -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: brianbrian Post Reply
03/07/2008, 02:05:48

You can see pitting, blackening and whitening. I think this is common at the base of the branch where it anchors itself. It is also comon where you have imperfections in the coral due to the presence on the branch of other marine organisms. Again you can see the "anima" in the two most rounded beads.

DSCN4748_edited.jpg (124.0 KB)  


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"anima"
Re: Long and boring information about coral -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: brianbrian Post Reply
03/07/2008, 02:16:46

In this picture you can see a Himalayan repaired bead from Nepal. Looking at the colour it could be mediterranean or Japanese but the "anima" is visible at the hole. The branch is med coral from (bought in) Morocco and a horn "corno" from Trapani but almost certainly made from recently fished North African coral. The branch is quite visually interesting because you can see the position of the coral polyps when they were alive.

DSCN4691_edited.jpg (96.0 KB)  


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Sciacca coral
Re: Long and boring information about coral -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: brianbrian Post Reply
03/07/2008, 02:27:30

Nearly all of the coral on this strand is identifiable as Sciacca. It is often similar in clour to salmon pink Japanese coral but lacks the anima and is often darker and older looking. In fact it is often described as fossil coral. It was discovered in huge quantities off the coast of Sicily at sciacca at the end of the nineteenth century, piled up in deep layers on the sea floor. The more the coral was fished and the deeper in the layers it came from, the darker it became and the worse the quality.

The amount of coral found lead to the collapse of the market price, putting many out of business from the fishermen to the companies to the home workers. The price went down to such an extent that one company started producing wall tiles using coral!

DSCN4730_edited.jpg (111.2 KB)  


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test
Re: Sciacca coral -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Joyce Post Reply
09/08/2013, 10:28:46



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Nigerian (West Africa) and Moroccan coral shapes
Re: Long and boring information about coral -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: brianbrian Post Reply
03/07/2008, 02:44:10

Colour and shape. The large tube shape is typical of West African coral typically found in Nigeria. It is still used today as a status symbol by men and women, often in long rounded rigid necklaces. The royal regalia for the Ashanti (I think) consists in part of coral tubes made into nets which are worn on hats and over robes. The effect is to clothe the person who is to be crowned in coral.

The branch shapes are typical of Moroccan and North African coral. The industry at Torre del Greco called this kind of coral "Maometti" or Mohammeds. In fact the material, branches of this size and shape was called "Barbaresco" presumably to indicate that it was destined for the Barbary Coast of North Africa.

Again you can see a variety of colour, from dark red to pink to brown to white. The brown coral is toward the extremme of Sciacca type "fossil" coral. The white has been attacked possibly by something acid and or heat.

DSCN4759_edited.jpg (113.2 KB)  


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A favourite bead and some shapes
Re: Long and boring information about coral -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: brianbrian Post Reply
03/07/2008, 03:06:28

The large pitted bead in the centre of the pic comes from Morocco, or should that be Yemen, or should that be Torre del Greco, or should that be wherever inthe Mediterranean it was originally fished!

I bought it in Morocco from a very nice old guy who had become rich importing coral into Morocco from Yemen. It almost certainly came to Yemen from Italy, probably from Torre del Greco though it could have been from Genova or Livorno or from Trapani depending on how long ago it was fished and turned into a bead. Remember that Italy has been expertring coral to the orient for the last 2000 years at least. Then again it might have come through the hands of the Phoenicians or the Arabs in North Africa, Spain or Sicily.

It is so dense,hard and glassy that I have wondered if it is actually carnelian agate. It is pitted and shows colour variation. Some of these characteritics I have come to associate with older beads. Anyone who deals with beads made from natural materials, that cannot be dated through manufacturing technique, colour and pattern, knows the feeling that some characteristics point to some beads being older than others. The density and polish seem in particular to be charcteristics of old coral.

The beads behind are Japanese coral but are quite an interesting shape. They have bevelled ends so if strung tightly together they will form a circle. Never a very successful shape in my opinion because if they are strung tight they loose that essential fluid quality of a good necklace and if they aren't strung tightly they change direction randomly.

DSCN4775_edited.jpg (103.6 KB)  


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Mediterranean coral with white streaks
Re: Long and boring information about coral -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: brianbrian Post Reply
03/07/2008, 03:18:15

These beads also have white streaks. So what distiguishes a white streak from the "anima" of Japanese coral? The anima is long as it runs the length of all the branches. You can often see where it goes through the bead, where it goes "in" and "out".

On Mediterranean coral white patches and streaks are usually associated with other, physical, imperfections such as pitting and particularly with black pits or cracks which are then surrounded by white streaks. Presumably these are not naturally ocurring characteristics of the coral branch itself but are due to the action of marine organisms or physical incrustations on the suface of or penetrating the branch.

DSCN4671_edited.jpg (102.2 KB)  


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some dyed coral
Re: Long and boring information about coral -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: brianbrian Post Reply
03/07/2008, 03:37:16

This is dyed coral from before the huge wave of dyed coral that has flooded the world in the last ten years or so. You can see that some was originally white. I don't know if the brown coral was originally white.

One characteristic of dyed coral is that it is almost alalways possible to see the "grain" of the coral, like the grain of wood. With precious corals ie Mediterranean or Japanese and presumably Pacific coral it is much more difficult to see the grain.

Some dyed coral such as apple or sponge coral is easily indentifiable. It is not very dense and can only take a polish because it has been treated with resin.

I would be interested to know the source of the dyed corals and anything about the varities that are dyed. Presumably they come from the Pacific Ocean.

DSCN4022_edited.jpg (68.9 KB)  DSCN4023_edited.jpg (68.4 KB)  


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Possibly not!
Re: some dyed coral -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
03/07/2008, 03:49:57

Hello Brian,

I bought a strand of similar beads in Nigeria, that I thought were originally white beads that had been dyed pink, and that most of the pink dye had faded, returning the material to white.

However, I have since documented a piece of natural coral, still a branch, and uncut, that has just these same characteristics. The outside is white (or pale) and the inside is pink.

I'll try to post a photo when I return next weekand of some other specimens as well.

I cannot agree with your explanation about grain visibility. Although it's possible dying may make grain more visible, fundamentally, different varieties of coral have different coarsenesses of grain. In many hard corals the grain can be so fine it cannot be seen without a lens. In others, the striations are very visible with the naked eye. These are SIZE issues. It's not dying that enhances the grain, in these instances.

Currently, most dyed hard coral is "bamboo" coral, treated by Chinese manufacturers. There have been quite a few posts here discussing that topic, that you can find by Searching the site. Most current dyed coral was originally tan or yellowish.

Cheers, Jamey



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Thank you for your comment, Jamey. I failed to express myself clearly.
Re: Possibly not! -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: brianbrian Post Reply
03/07/2008, 04:41:07

I believe it is a characteristic of the coral that is used as raw material in the dying process. This coral appears to have a more visible grain than "precious" coral.

You mention that this coral is tan or yellowish.

In fact if a coral is hard, compact and will take a polish and has a relatively uniform appearance it could legitimately be regarded as a precious coral as long as the colour is attractive. It's geographical origin is less important than its physical and aesthetic characteristics. Clearly if the coral has an unattractive colour this can be changed if it has visible grain this may to some extent be hidden through the dying process.

Even among precious corals there is enormous variation.

With regard to the branch of coral that you mention having a white exterior and pink interior, do you think the colour variation inside could be in any way comapable with the "anima" of Japanese coral? All the Japanese corals including white "bianco" (shiro) have colour variation, the coral with a red surface has a white vein, the coral with a white surface is also described as having a red or pink vein.



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concerning dyed coral
Re: Thank you for your comment, Jamey. I failed to express myself clearly. -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: stefany Post Reply
03/07/2008, 10:01:49

Hello Brianbrian

I think you confirm what I said in a post on coral, part of a very recent previous thread here, that because of variations in the density of the grain, a dye will soak in differently and often accentuate the striations.

I just tried to mail you individually but my computer (and my brain) is so old-fashioned that I'm unable to send you a personal message without your private email address. I guess Joyce could forward you mine and if you wish, you could reply so we can establish contact.
From the way you write and spell, I deduce that you may be British? If so, are you based in UK? I'm in London.

best wishes
Stefany



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Re: concerning dyed coral
Re: concerning dyed coral -- stefany Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: brianbrian Post Reply
03/07/2008, 12:34:16

Didn't manage to email you either. I'm currently based in Sweden.



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dyed coral closer
Re: Long and boring information about coral -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: brianbrian Post Reply
03/07/2008, 03:38:28

DSCN4024_edited.jpg (84.3 KB)  


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999beads old coral beads and coral from Mali
Re: Long and boring information about coral -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: brianbrian Post Reply
03/07/2008, 04:18:59

I am a confirmed and long standing lurker on this forum. I have been planning to make a contribution about coral for some time but have not and am still not happy with my pics.

If my eyes don't deceive me 999beads coral is bright red and has white marks in association with black pitting which would, in my opinion, make it genuine mediterranean corallium rubrum.

I have heard a lot about coral from various parts of the world other than the med and the pacific. Mention is often made of the sea around India, the Red Sea and the Atlantic coast of Africa. I have actually seen coral which I believe to have come from the Red Sea and I have been told tens of times by Yemenis that their coral was from the Red Sea. The coral which I saw was in a jeweller's shop in Dhahab in the Sinai in Egypt and had been bought by the shopowner from the fisherman. It was salmon pink in colour, had quite large branches and had not been professionally worked.

The Atlantic coast of Africa produces coral as it has been a source of coral for the industry of Torre del Greco. A coral prospecting submarine reputedly ended its days on the Cabo Verde islands off the coast of Africa and coral was, again reputedly, found but evidently not enough to keep the submarine in business or to start a coral rush.

The same point can be made about the coral of the Red Sea and the coast of India. Either there isn't enough of it or the quality isn't good enough for it to warrant the development of a local industry of any size fishing or working it. It's worth remembering that we are talking about alleged sources of coral right on the doorsteps of 3 of the four major historical coral markets: West Africa; Yemen and the Middle East;India, and through Nepal,Tibet and Mongolia.

In my opinion local coral, especially if it is worked with any degree of finesse or if it conforms to the characteristics of Italian worked coral, is most likely to have come from the traditional coral working centres in the Mediterranean.

The pic is of part of Turkman woman's (shouldn't that be Turkwoman!) head dress.

I plan to cite some sources for my info but I am notoriously unreliable.

DSCN4028_edited.jpg (92.1 KB)  


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Thanks Brian!
Re: Long and boring information about coral -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: JEFF Post Reply
03/07/2008, 04:25:17

I've only started buying coral over the last few years, and your info and examples are very appreciated! Can you recommend a good book on the subject?
Best, Jeff



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Hi Jeff
Re: Thanks Brian! -- JEFF Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: brianbrian Post Reply
03/07/2008, 05:01:23

Ther are books on pearls and amber and of course on gem stones but as far as I'm aware there is no book which deals exclusively with quality and variety in coral.

There are a number of books about coral which have some information about this subject. The best is by Basilio Liverino (see reference below). In fact if you google his name you may well come to the site of his family's business in Torre del Greco. I don't think it's in English or if it is it's in that very special kind of English which only the Italians can get away with. His book is available in English. Nearly all the available documentation is in Italian but just like with the Venetian glass bead industry there is not as much as you would expect or hope for.

The "Vie del Corallo" books are very beautiful and very informative (not about quality and variety)though mostly pics. They deal with coral in the jewellery and costume of different traditional "ethnic" markets for Italian coral. The first and best is about coral in Mongolia and is based on information and items collected by the representative of another family coral firm who travelled to Mongolia on business, in the mid 20th century I think.

Liverino,Basilio. Il corallo.Esperienze e ricordi di un corallaro. Bologna, Analisi 1984, cm.23x28,5, pp.IX-229,centinaia di tavv.a col.nt. leg.ed.cop.fig.a col. Coll.Di Cultura Materiale e Storia Industriale.

Liverino,B. Red Coral jewel of the sea. Traslated by J.H.Johnson. Bologna, Ediz.Analisi 1989, cm.23x28, pp.208, centinaia di ill.e tavv.a col.nt. leg.ed.cop.a col. Testo in inglese.(Altra copia,idem,ediz.in giapponese). –

A.A.V.V., Le vie del Corallo. Il corallo nella gioielleria etnica della Mongolia, a cura della Banca di Credito Popolare di Torre del Greco, ed. Electa Napoli, 1996, p. 12.

A.A.V.V., Le vie del corallo. Secondo Itinerario. Il corallo nel gioiello etnico indiano, a cura della Banca di Credito Popolare di Torre del Greco, ed. Electa Napoli, 1998, pp. 11 e sgg.

A.A.V.V., Le vie del Corallo. Terzo Itinerario. Il corallo di Samarcanda. L’ornamento dell’Asia Islamica dalla Turchia all’Uzbekistan, a cura della Banca di Credito Popolare di Torre del Greco, ed. Electa Napoli, 2000, pp. 15-16.

DSCN3979_edited.jpg (82.2 KB)  


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le vie del corallo on the net
Re: Hi Jeff -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: brianbrian Post Reply
03/08/2008, 02:10:17

try googling "le vie del corallo"



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la vita del corallo
Re: Long and boring information about coral -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: brianbrian Post Reply
03/07/2008, 05:13:13

DSCN3980_edited.jpg (82.0 KB)  DSCN3982_edited.jpg (77.4 KB)  


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la vita del corallo
Re: Long and boring information about coral -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: brianbrian Post Reply
03/07/2008, 05:14:25

DSCN3983_edited.jpg (81.1 KB)  DSCN3984_edited.jpg (81.0 KB)  


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la morte del corallo
Re: Long and boring information about coral -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: brianbrian Post Reply
03/07/2008, 05:18:19

You would have thought that they colud have chosen something a bit less hideous to illustrate the death of corallo nobile (noble coral)!

DSCN3985_edited.jpg (80.8 KB)  


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coral from Oman
Re: Long and boring information about coral -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: brianbrian Post Reply
03/07/2008, 05:23:18

Well, not really, again from Italy I would imagine, a brief stop in Muscat on the way to Bombay or Calcutta where the real market lay.

DSCN3999_edited.jpg (69.1 KB)  


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(an excuse for) coral from Yemen
Re: Long and boring information about coral -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: brianbrian Post Reply
03/07/2008, 05:27:21

DSCN4005_edited.jpg (86.5 KB)  


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coral from Yemen
Re: Long and boring information about coral -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: brianbrian Post Reply
03/07/2008, 05:31:37

The necklace was restrung in Yemen, I think after a Moroccan model. All components are original.

DSCN4007_edited.jpg (80.4 KB)  


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restrung necklace from Yemen
Re: Long and boring information about coral -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: brianbrian Post Reply
03/07/2008, 05:34:34

DSCN4008_edited.jpg (74.0 KB)  


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strung up
Re: Long and boring information about coral -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: brianbrian Post Reply
03/07/2008, 05:37:37

DSCN4009_edited.jpg (75.6 KB)  


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strung out from the Hadhramaut in Yemen
Re: Long and boring information about coral -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: brianbrian Post Reply
03/07/2008, 05:42:05

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pic 1 original stringing and components, pic 2 improved! components, Najd, Saudi Arabia
Re: Long and boring information about coral -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: brianbrian Post Reply
03/07/2008, 05:48:24

oops, first pic is wrong!

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Modified by brianbrian at Fri, Mar 07, 2008, 05:51:02

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correct pic 1
Re: pic 1 original stringing and components, pic 2 improved! components, Najd, Saudi Arabia -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: brianbrian Post Reply
03/07/2008, 05:53:28

DSCN4014_edited.jpg (62.8 KB)  


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Re: Pendant on a coral necklace
Re: Long and boring information about coral -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: nishedha Post Reply
03/07/2008, 06:12:10

An old Spanish or Italian "manufica" amulet. The gold is 22K, one the rings holds a bsra pearl, the other one a diamant. The pendant is 55 mm., suspension loop included.

figa_det3.jpg (79.4 KB)  figa_det4.jpg (99.8 KB)  


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Re: Pendant on a coral necklace
Re: Re: Pendant on a coral necklace -- nishedha Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: brianbrian Post Reply
03/07/2008, 06:24:29

old Spanish, southern Italian, same same

Joking apart it's an amazing pendant. The necklace looks nice too. Do you have a shot of it?

It was an insulting gesture for the Romans, representing the female genitalia. Never could quite work the details of that! Just like "le corna" are an insulting gesture now. The meaning is that the person gestured at is a cuckold and has cuckold's horns. The same gesture is used but pointing down to ward off bad luck and presumably this is related to the coral "corna" as an amulet to ward of bad luck



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Really great posts Brian : )
Re: Re: Pendant on a coral necklace -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: JWainwright Post Reply
03/07/2008, 07:07:13



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Re: The coral necklace
Re: Re: Pendant on a coral necklace -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: nishedha Post Reply
03/09/2008, 07:22:19

figa_neck.jpg (121.2 KB)  


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thanks, my better half says ...
Re: Re: The coral necklace -- nishedha Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: brianbrian Post Reply
03/09/2008, 10:09:56

she could never wear it. What's your position on this one? I don't think it matters. I just love coral. Is the necklace original to the pendant and do you have any idea about dating?



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Re: Long and boring information - NOT!
Re: Long and boring information about coral -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: bob Post Reply
03/07/2008, 06:53:42

Thanks Brian - Your coral essay is great!

You lurk well - and write even better.........

One has to wonder how many lurkers are out there who could contribute fascinating content?



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More thanks
Re: Re: Long and boring information - NOT! -- bob Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: tantalus Post Reply
03/07/2008, 07:09:34

Bob, thank you for all this information. Happy bit of synchronicity for me - I'm beginning to collect Himalayan coral (you know, the stuff some online traders say is 'mined in the Himalayan regions,' and I really appreciate being shown so plainly the differences between the various types, particularly the identifying characteristics of Japanese coral. I just bought a nice string of Tibetan coral from Rita Okrent's collection - I'd post some photos, but my camera has just come to the end of its existence. Thanks to you I've identified it as mostly Sciacca with some Mediterranean beads as well and even a couple of Japanese beads for good measure. Thanks again!

Cheers,

Pip



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All thanks to brianbrain!
Re: More thanks -- tantalus Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: bob Post Reply
03/07/2008, 07:19:11



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Re: Long and boring information - NOT! AMEN!!! I have not been this excited ---
Re: Re: Long and boring information - NOT! -- bob Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: adjichristine Post Reply
03/07/2008, 14:55:08

as I have been, reading this post! Please stay with us and share your vast knowledge! I love Coral but, all of my Coral comes from Mauritania! My interst in Coral increased when, I attended a large convention where many Nigerians were present. The wealthiest Nigerians wore ropes of Coral necklaces! I spent alot of my time just following them around drooling over their beads! Many of them were so happy that I appreciated their beloved beads that they would take them off, put them on me so, I could be photographed with sumptious Coral necklaces!!!



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Re: Long and boring -*NOT* -- can you help me with these?
Re: Long and boring information about coral -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: paula Post Reply
03/07/2008, 08:28:37

Thank you, Brian, and welcome back to posting on BCN. I recall that you posted photos of some wonderful Yemeni silver pieces a couple of years back.

What about this coral? These necklaces are seen frequently in Jerusalem shops that sell old Middle Eastern silver.

Thanks,
Paula

Coral.jpg (105.0 KB)  1_Coral-necklace-closeup.jpg (67.3 KB)  


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Hi Paula
Re: Re: Long and boring -*NOT* -- can you help me with these? -- paula Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: brianbrian Post Reply
03/07/2008, 09:01:09

I recognise the type of coral and the style of the necklace from similar things I've see in the Sinai, though never with this much coral. The metal beads are also similar to types that you find in Yemen and Saudi Arabia and are probably generically middle eastern. The "african amber" is also generic to M.E. jewellery. The necklace looks as though it has been restrung but the coral is clearly real and probably Sciacca by the looks of it. It's impossible to say wher it came from originally but it certainally looks to be the right colour and shape.



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Coral sourced in Morocco
Re: Hi Paula -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: red Post Reply
03/07/2008, 15:24:18

Here are a couple of examples from my recent trip.
One was sold to me as Chleuh Coral...I guess because it it used widely in the Chleuh Berber jewellery (Tarroudant Tiznit)Anti Atlas region, and is perhaps recycled from these pieces.

The paler was sold to me as Nigerian ??


Warm wishes
S

2_coral.jpg (116.2 KB)  coral2.jpg (61.9 KB)  


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Re: Coral sourced in Morocco ( Nigerian?)
Re: Coral sourced in Morocco -- red Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: red Post Reply
03/07/2008, 15:25:33

Pic of paler coral

nigeriacoralmain.jpg (46.1 KB)  


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unusual colour and..
Re: Re: Coral sourced in Morocco ( Nigerian?) -- red Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: brianbrian Post Reply
03/08/2008, 00:04:33

some of the beads seem to have the white patches that you see on Japanese coral. Also the beads look as if they belong together as they are all similar in size shape and colour. There is no way of knowing for sure but perhaps.... Japan-Torre del Greco-Nigeria-Morocco-UK?



Modified by brianbrian at Sat, Mar 08, 2008, 00:05:05

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unworked, unworn? Chleuh Coral
Re: Coral sourced in Morocco -- red Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: brianbrian Post Reply
03/08/2008, 00:14:35

Its only speculation on my part but this coral seems completely unworked other than cleaning and breaking up the branches. Also, if the edges of the breaks are sharp it may very well never have been worn. If this were the case then this coral may be the product of recent fishing off the coast of Morocco. I saw some more or less complete branches of local coral (locally fished but not locally worked, at the stage when I saw it)in Morocco a few years ago, in the hands of the same guy who said that he owed his comfortable economic position in part to Yemeni coral.



Modified by brianbrian at Sat, Mar 08, 2008, 00:16:39

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Re: unworked, unworn? Chleuh Coral
Re: unworked, unworn? Chleuh Coral -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: red Post Reply
03/08/2008, 06:20:19

Thank for this interesting insight, I am intrigued. Would you be happy to take a look at a piece to see what you think if I send it to you.
I bought these from a guy in the Tiznit area. He dug them out of a box at the bottom of a pile of boxes, wrapped in 15 year old newspaper. So I would be keen to know if the attention to detail in the story telling was so well prepared! I wasn't aware that coral was still gathered in the area. If this is the case, I need to rethink my stance when purchasing.

Thanks for considering this . I am appreciative of your generosity in Sharing your knowledge.

Warm wishes
Sarah



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perhaps some closer shots and ...
Re: Re: unworked, unworn? Chleuh Coral -- red Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: brianbrian Post Reply
03/08/2008, 08:21:37

it's only an opinion and anyway has no bearing on the value or attractiveness of the coral or, in fact, on the veracity of the vendor's story. He may have meant that it is the kind of coral that is typically used in that kind of jewellery. Also, 15 years ago would still be recent in coral terms.
Like I say, it's only an opinion.



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Re: perhaps some closer shots and ...
Re: perhaps some closer shots and ... -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: red Post Reply
03/09/2008, 11:44:14

And very welcome too. I can see your words are well considered, and also from a wealth of knowledge. I thank you.
I shall get some more pics done tomorrow....I seem to be little hungover today!!
Warm wishes
Sarah



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Nice millimeter rule, Sarah! <g>
Re: Coral sourced in Morocco -- red Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Russ Nobbs Post Reply
03/08/2008, 21:53:08



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Re: Nice millimeter rule, Sarah! <g>
Re: Nice millimeter rule, Sarah! <g> -- Russ Nobbs Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: red Post Reply
03/09/2008, 11:42:11

The most useful gift I was given last year, Always on my desk and used every day!
There was almost a riot when my son took it to do his homework, and I could nt find it for some pics!!

I don't know what I will do if it wears out, you should sell them on your site!

Thanks
Sarah !



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thanks to everyone for your kind attention and kinder remarks
Re: Long and boring information about coral -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: brianbrian Post Reply
03/07/2008, 09:52:35



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Brian, thanks so much for this coral intensive!
Re: Long and boring information about coral -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Joyce Post Reply
03/08/2008, 06:38:16



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link to Basilio Liverino info including great pics of coral varieties
Re: Long and boring information about coral -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: brianbrian Post Reply
03/08/2008, 09:05:56


Related link: http://www.torredelgreco.org/corallarte/storia_corallo/storia_corallo_01.htm
Modified by brianbrian at Sat, Mar 08, 2008, 10:14:48

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seems not to work
Re: link to Basilio Liverino info including great pics of coral varieties -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: brianbrian Post Reply
03/08/2008, 09:07:02



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One http:// to much
Re: link to Basilio Liverino info including great pics of coral varieties -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: hans Post Reply
03/08/2008, 09:35:14



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Thanks Hans. Fixed, I think.
Re: One http:// to much -- hans Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: brianbrian Post Reply
03/08/2008, 10:16:59



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Thanks for great essay and pictures
Re: Thanks Hans. Fixed, I think. -- brianbrian Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Russ Nobbs Post Reply
03/08/2008, 21:54:26



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