Post Message Search Overview RegisterLoginAdmin
Warring States Beads
Post Reply Edit View All Forum
Posted by: floorkasp Post Reply
10/21/2015, 05:11:47

Inspired by Kika's beautiful Warring States beads, I realized I still had a collection of images from last years' exhibit if Warring States beads in the Shanghai Museum.

The images are a mix of a full slideshow that they showed and some other pictures of the beads in the exhibit. As is often the case in museums, the pictures are not always done in the best circumstances.

There are a total of 76 pictures, which is a bit much to post here. Anyone interested, send me a private message with your email and I'l send you a PDF file.

FKwarringstates201501.jpg (47.5 KB)  FKwarringstates201520.jpg (38.0 KB)  


© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Warring States Beads
Re: Warring States Beads -- floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: floorkasp Post Reply
10/21/2015, 05:12:32

FKwarringstates201528.jpg (33.9 KB)  FKwarringstates201527.jpg (33.4 KB)  


© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Delightfully whimsical
Re: Re: Warring States Beads -- floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Luann Udell Post Reply
10/21/2015, 08:33:39

I saw a lot of ancient Chinese art in my days as an art history major, and I never saw anything as delightfully whimsical as these two dog figures! LOVE THEM! Thanks for expanding my view.

Luann Udell artist & writer Ancient stories retold in modern artifacts LuannUdell.com

© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Warring States Beads
Re: Warring States Beads -- floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: floorkasp Post Reply
10/21/2015, 05:13:46

FKwarringstates201529.jpg (37.3 KB)  FKwarringstates201553.jpg (40.0 KB)  


© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Warring States Beads
Re: Warring States Beads -- floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: floorkasp Post Reply
10/21/2015, 05:14:36

FKwarringstates201567.jpg (24.4 KB)  FKwarringstates201576.jpg (24.6 KB)  


© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Warring States Beads
Re: Warring States Beads -- floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: kika Post Reply
10/21/2015, 06:42:22

Oh! thanks to much! There are so nice! I send to you a glass tube bead that seems your pic.

DSC05763.jpg (168.2 KB)  DSC05766.jpg (169.0 KB)  
kika

© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Please tell us about your bead. Where and when did you buy it? Do you feel it may be a recent copy?
Re: Re: Warring States Beads -- kika Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
10/21/2015, 09:33:53



Modified by Frederick II at Wed, Oct 21, 2015, 09:35:02

© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
about the bead
Re: Please tell us about your bead. Where and when did you buy it? Do you feel it may be a recent copy? -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: kika Post Reply
10/21/2015, 11:05:32

It's impossible whether they may be recent copies. I acquired these beads with a specialist of the antique and archaic Chinese art and specially archaic jades, they were quite evaluated by several experts and I acquired them in Beijing, eight or ten years ago, but not to the market!

kika

© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Fascinating
Re: Re: Warring States Beads -- kika Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: floorkasp Post Reply
10/21/2015, 10:43:53

Here are two more pics: one of the same one, lit from below.
The other one is a broken one.

Both have a similar design to yours, but not exact matches.

FKwarring201511.jpg (21.0 KB)  FKwarring201521.jpg (31.5 KB)  


© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Oh! yes fantastic,
Re: Fascinating -- floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: kika Post Reply
10/21/2015, 11:11:08

Yes, there are similar. Mine is more worn out, maybe.
Do you have seen the Han dynasty bead that I posted, few days ago? this one is fantastic too!!

kika

© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
to my untrained eye
Re: Re: Warring States Beads -- kika Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: TASART Post Reply
10/23/2015, 11:42:54

this bead doesn't appear correct......but that is only and opinion



© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Is your bead(s) Translucent?
Re: Re: Warring States Beads -- kika Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: AnneLFG Post Reply
10/25/2015, 13:03:02

Hi Kika, I am noticing that these beads tend to be translucent, and see that some of the photo examples show this. Can you shine a light through your bead(s) and see how it looks/ how the hole looks? Thanks!

Info from the Miho Museum Kyoto, Japan/ Photo from Flicker. https://www.flickr.com/photos/antiquitiesproject/4640378735/

Bead lover, collector since Age 15, semi-retired had wholesale/retail bead, folk art, tribal art store Lost and Found Gallery for 25 yrs. in DT Greensboro, NC

Modified by AnneLFG at Sun, Oct 25, 2015, 13:06:39

© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Oops, resent as private message.
Re: Warring States Beads -- floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
10/21/2015, 08:38:47



Modified by Frederick II at Wed, Oct 21, 2015, 08:40:49

© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Kika, I would like hear how others feel concerning the "patina" on your cylindrical "WS" bead
Re: Warring States Beads -- floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
10/21/2015, 15:08:40



Modified by Frederick II at Wed, Oct 21, 2015, 15:09:19

© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
which one? I had several cylindric beads
Re: Kika, I would like hear how others feel concerning the "patina" on your cylindrical "WS" bead -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: kika Post Reply
10/22/2015, 03:06:26

kika

© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
I feel this is a contemporary acid etched bead:
Re: which one? I had several cylindric beads -- kika Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
10/22/2015, 03:12:37

 


© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: I feel this is a contemporary acid etched bead:
Re: I feel this is a contemporary acid etched bead: -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: kika Post Reply
10/23/2015, 06:05:12

Hi Frederick
I saw and found many beads of searches in Africa and the look is very different from one to another: the aspect is different according to the localization and especially according to the ground, when it is acid, the beads have an another aspect, very different. For me too, it is not a copy.
There is another bead from search in PINYAO. The aspect is different.

DSC05850.jpg (174.5 KB)  DSC05851.jpg (169.8 KB)  
kika

© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Kika's bead - looks authentic to me
Re: Warring States Beads -- floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Will Post Reply
10/22/2015, 20:03:59

I’m very hesitant about disagreeing with Fred because I know how good he is at sniffing out fakes (and at much else besides, of course). But I had a little time this afternoon and found myself looking at the pics of this bead several times before making up my mind. That’s to say - as much as it ever makes itself up!

One of the problems is that most of us have very little experience with Warring States glass beads - as opposed to the ones with composite or clay cores which are much more common. Personally, I’ve only had the chance to handle them a few times, mainly in museums wearing cotton gloves. But I do know the acid-finished fakes of East Java intimately, and as I looked at Kika’s photos closely, her bead seemed substantially different. The wear at individual spots - the white of the heart-shaped leaves, the concentric lines at the ends with the indentation at the top of the bead on the left side of the first photo, the rims of the air bubbles and the crack lines - all of this looks absolutely typical to me.

It’s worth checking the beads that Pipane showed on this forum several years ago; the surfaces of several of them are quite similar. And when we compare it to the hundred odd pages of Warring States beads in Simon Kwan’s Early Chinese Glass, we can see that the kind of dull, even surface on Kika’s bead is absolutely typical of the wear on most very good Warring States glass.

Also I checked out a few Chinese online sites. Ali Baba and Ali Express, for instance, have a lot of fake Warring States beads listed, frequently at high prices, but none of the ones that I found had anything like the quality of Kika’s.

It all adds up. I could be wrong. I often am. I think I would be sure immediately if I had it between my fingers.

Incidentally, I think the heart motif is probably more probably a leaf. It could be both, of course, but I don’t know of heart symbolism in China anything like as early as this. There are two almost identical beads on page 179 of Kwan’s book (though they’re not in as good condtion). Kwan describes the leaves as a persimmon calyx, which they certainly resemble. For the last thousand years or so (and possibly before) the persimmon has been a symbol of happiness in Chinese art.

There it is. I’ll attach a photo of the most beautiful Warring States bead I’ve actually touched - or rather, it touched me when I got the chance to examine it in Japan. They really are amazing beads; I’ve always marveled at the Phoenician stratified eye beads which preceded these, but the Warring States beads at their best outdo them in their brilliant precision.

Cheers,

Will

Will:WarringState63b_(1).jpg (24.2 KB)  


© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Six reasons why I would not buy this bead:
Re: Re: Kika's bead - looks authentic to me -- Will Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
10/23/2015, 02:08:05

There needs to be a chemical analysis of the glass to be certain. And there are excellent copyists who could fool the eye.

Weak_WS_Bead.jpg (91.3 KB)  


Modified by Frederick II at Fri, Oct 23, 2015, 03:18:44

© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Curious
Re: Six reasons why I would not buy this bead: -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: floorkasp Post Reply
10/23/2015, 05:07:42

Obviously, I am not knowledgable enough about Warring State Beads to give any opinion on this bead's authenticity. The only Warring States bead I have is probably genuine, but with the eyes filled in with polymer clay. Clearly, I am easily fooled. ;-)

I am surprised however at one of your observations. You state that the small dots should be more even and filling drilled holes. I was under the impression that these beads were lampworked, and that the small dots were simply small dots of glass molten in. Due to imcompatibility or different erosion on different glass colors, they sometimes fall out. But I would not think they are made by filling in drilled holes. All the other decorations look like they are done at the torch to me.

This bead, from the Shanghai museum, also has the small dots not being equal in size. Does that make it suspicious to you?

Would love to know more about how you think they were produced.

FKwarring2015212.jpg (53.1 KB)  


© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: "looks authentic to me"
Re: Re: Kika's bead - looks authentic to me -- Will Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
10/23/2015, 02:16:44

bcn_pipane_8_8_09.jpg (98.7 KB)  bcn_beadman_8_8_09.jpg (131.3 KB)  


© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
My two favorite articles about "experts" and the Chinese antiques market
Re: Re: "looks authentic to me" -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
10/23/2015, 09:52:25

The Antiques Hustle

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ZyhgsHNNuf8J:www.theworldofchinese.com/2014/08/the-antiques-hustle/+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

I liked the part where the peasants were out-foxing the scientific dating tests by grinding up ancient clay bricks to use in the fake clay figurines.

Yang Boda scandal

Along with four other experts, Yang Boda, former deputy curator of the Palace Museum in Beijing, determined that two items of jade clothing sewn with gold threads were authentic antiques and slapped a price tag of 2.4 billion yuan ($376 million) on them.
The two items were later found to be fakes.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/opinion/2011-09/13/content_13670774.htm

A sub-theme in these articles is that the "experts" will never, ever admit that they were mistaken.

Another sub-theme is the prevalence of fakes in Chinese museums.

Phishing for Phools explores our weakness for a good story, and how the predatory exploit that.


Related link: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ZyhgsHNNuf8J:www.theworldofchinese.com/2014/08/the-antiques-hustle/+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Thanks Will
Re: Re: Kika's bead - looks authentic to me -- Will Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: kika Post Reply
10/23/2015, 10:27:47

Yes, your answer is very interesting. I posted another bead of similar bead, but the patina is not the same, do you have seen it?. This debate is important because we know all that a lot of forgery circulate. Did you read what I said about african beads? I saw many of these and the ground, where they were, is really determining too.

kika

© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
We learn more from polite disagreement than from telling each other how wonderful we are.
Re: Warring States Beads -- floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
10/23/2015, 15:15:10



© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Fred you'll always be more wonderful than me!
Re: We learn more from polite disagreement than from telling each other how wonderful we are. -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: TASART Post Reply
10/23/2015, 18:55:18



© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Oh! yes I agree!
Re: We learn more from polite disagreement than from telling each other how wonderful we are. -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: kika Post Reply
10/24/2015, 12:50:24

And what do you think about the second tube bead? the patina is different.

kika

© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Warring States Beads - reasons for disagreement
Re: Warring States Beads -- floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Will Post Reply
10/24/2015, 14:09:22


Hi Fred, hi everyone,

I agree completely with Fred. It’s natural to disagree about ancient beads and these disagreements help us to figure out the reasoning that underlies our own spontaneous judgements. So when I saw Fred’s notes on Kika’s photograph, I thought, “I need to think about this some more.” I didn’t have time till this afternoon when I sat down again with Kwan’s book on Ancient Chinese Glass and went through the pictures of more than a hundred eye beads in some detail. Here, for now, are my conclusions. I’ll take each of Fred’s points and note my responses.

1 “Overall surface texture much too even.” In fact, among Kwan’s glass beads a matte even surface is the norm. Of all the glass eye beads 31 out of 42 have a surface that is flat and even rather than shiny. I didn’t count the few that were damaged. This surprised me because I think of these beads essentially as being bright, as they obviously once were, but actually one of the consistent signs of age is the kind of surface that Fred complains about. Most of the pottery-cored eye beads are similar, and so are almost all the non-bead eye artefacts (plaques, inlays, etc).

2. “Thin application of decoration.” Fred is partially right here as far as the white bands are concerned. The white has retained its form less than in most beads in Kwan’s collection, but the difference may possibly be explained by varying soil conditions. Still, it’s definitely worth noting. This is the only one of Fred’s points that I would go along with wholeheartedly.

3. “Dots should be uniform and filling drilled holes.” In fact, this is quite incorrect. First of all the holes are not “drilled”; they are of course created by the drops of glass as they are applied to the core cylinder. And they are seldom uniform in size, presumably because of the difficulty in controlling exactly the quantity of glass. In Kwan’s book only 6 out of 21 beads with this kind of decoration have dots that could be described as being more or less uniform; all the others vary widely in size. I’ll attach a photo of a bead that has lost its dots (as most do) that is in the collection of the Royal Ontario Museum in Toronto. It’s a bead I’ve been able to examine closely; it was added to the collection in the early twentieth century. As you can see there’s no uniformity in these holes, andthey certainly weren’t drilled.

4. “Patina lacking in recessed areas.” This is a subjective judgement. To my eye, these areas where the glass decoration has worn away look exactly as they should. I have several of the pottery-cored glass eye beads and the areas of wear look exactly like this.

5. “These (central) lines should be perfectly centred.” No, they shouldn’t, and they’re not in most (70%) of the beads that have these central bands in Kwan’s book. These beads are very carefully made, but their geometry is not perfect - nor need it be.


6 “Peculiar white, red and black combination (of colours).” Here again, Fred may be partially right. This actual combination of colours is unusual, but each does occur frequently in Warring States beads. However, I haven’t yet come across an example of these tubular beads that has the small dot decoration in this reddish brown colour; they are generally white on the glass beads, though the dots of the eyes on the pottery-cored beads are various colours - blue, brown or yellow. How to weight this in the overall picture is a matter of personal judgement. For some it may be decisive; for me, because I think the bead is authentic, it can easily be explained by beadmakers playing with the available resources and trying out new arrangements of the patterns - which obviously happened constantly in this period of intense experimentation.

Incidentally, I ought to point out that it’s quite difficult to know what the original colours of these Warring States beads sometimes were. I think the core tube was almost certainly a strong blue, but the red dots might have actually been a shade of purple that was common in monochrome glass at the time. I’ll attach an ear ornament of mine (slightly later, Han dynasty) that was accidentally broken; the dull weathered surface opened up to reveal a beautiful bright purple.

So there we have it, more kindling for the disagreement. Whatever the conclusion, it’s great to have a chance to talk about these wonderful beads.

All the best,

Will

Will:ROM:WS21.jpg (92.9 KB)  Will:Han:CH1.79a.jpg (53.9 KB)  


© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Follow-up - decorated cylinder beads that "Beadman" liked
Re: Re: Warring States Beads - reasons for disagreement -- Will Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Will Post Reply
10/24/2015, 14:44:06

In searching back through old photos, I came on a thread on the forum several years ago where Pipane posted a large number of Warring States beads. At the end of the thread, there's a comment from Beadman: “All very nice beads. An excellent collection!” Here are the two cylinder beads in the group.

Pipane is the nom-de-plume of a French collector and businessman who lives in Beijing and who used to write on this forum. He speaks Chinese, Japanese and other Asian languages, and he's done more than most westerners to sort out the characteristics of authentic ancient jade and glass artefacts from all the fakes that fill the markets in China. It's a difficult task. He could help us now. Where are you, Stéphane, now that we need you?

W

Pipane:3.jpg (59.3 KB)  Pipane:8.jpg (76.8 KB)  


© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Thank you for looking carefully. Moreover, I appreciate your diplomacy, Will.
Re: Follow-up - decorated cylinder beads that "Beadman" liked -- Will Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
10/24/2015, 15:32:20

Each of the points you have discussed is subjective in nature. And when it come to arts and crafts, each of us has to rely upon artistic intuition when we buy a bead. Comparing the red, white and black bead next to each of the others: It offends my sense of art in Warring States Era beads.

Recalling the year in which Kika bought the bead in Beijng, 2008, I visited Curio City, an antiques shopping mall in Beijing, daily during three trips that year alone. And I have been to Beijing dozens of times. At times, Curio City has been flooded with better copies than the black red and white one.

Will: You are a gentleman and a scholar. You have defended your stance beautifully. You should run for President of the United States. I will vote for you. Especially if you promise to build a bead museum in every major city.

When playing the role of judge and jury in the bead market, we have to weigh the clues which lead us to our decisions -this is especially important with Warring States beads because the Chinese market inspires copyists like no other. In this case, I have never been on the fence.

I am very busy this afternoon. But I can address the bead in question in detail later…How can we reach Pipane? Perhaps Kika or those with experience making beads would like to say more. I am especially interested in hearing from those who have experimented with usage of hydrochloric acid on beads -which I have witnessed in Beijing.

Sincerely,
Just Fred



Modified by Frederick II at Tue, Oct 27, 2015, 02:14:48

© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Small correction on glass etching
Re: Thank you for looking carefully. Moreover, I appreciate your diplomacy, Will. -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
10/24/2015, 17:55:07

Glass can be etched with hydrofluoric acid (HF), not hydrochloric. While both acids are very dangerous, hydrofluoric is EXTREMELY corrosive to organic matter such as human flesh and will cause horrid burns that may never heal. I had to use HF a few times in my career since it was the only way to etch some very inert plastics, and I was not happy about having to do the work.

Etching creams that contain sulfuric acid, sodium bifluoride, and ammonium bifluoride are sold and are "apparently safer". I would not go near this compound either, even with gloves that are rated for acids and a lot of other protective equipment. I'm sure glass etching can be done safely once the proper equipment is set up, but this has to be done with a lot of thoughtful preparation.

Fred, it must have been rather "thrilling" to see someone doing acid etching. Wondering why sand-blasting or tumbling wasn't used instead...



© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
The results I witnessed seemed to vary depending upon the glass used and time in the acid bath.
Re: Small correction on glass etching -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
10/25/2015, 01:36:23

I have witnessed copyists unashamedly applying antique finishes to their products on Cat Street in Hong Kong and in The Panjiayuan market in Beijing. There are shops in Curio City which clearly offer fakes for resale. This is no secret. It is as though the word "antique" and "ancient" is a contraction for "antique style" or "ancient style."

But hydrofluoric acid, as Rosanna mentions, needs to be in a controlled environment. And I have heard horror stories from those who buy and sell it.

Just Fred



Modified by Frederick II at Sun, Oct 25, 2015, 01:59:59

© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
We used it in high school art class...
Re: The results I witnessed seemed to vary depending upon the glass used and time in the acid bath. -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Joyce Post Reply
10/25/2015, 07:31:32

I frankly don't remember if we even wore gloves...we etched small glass window panes (Stencils carved with a blade). We just brushed the stuff on quickly, left it on for about one minute and rinsed it off. The ventilation would have simply been the classroom door open.



© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Some of my thoughts
Re: Re: Warring States Beads - reasons for disagreement -- Will Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: floorkasp Post Reply
10/25/2015, 02:01:26

My thoughts are based on experience with making glass beads, and not any real knowledge about ancient glass beads and ancient glass beads production.

From a beadmakers' standpoint, it seems odd to me that these tiny dots were drilled. Jamey has emailed me too with lots of interesting information, but I am not completely convinced yet about the drilling technique.
It would mean you would make a detailed bead. Then drill it with much precision, then reheat it to add glass to the recesses and then perhaps grind off the excess? Or would some type of powder glass/enamel be used and applied cold and then reheated? Either way, the reheating part seems like a great risk to take.

Also, to me, most of the Warring States beads I have seen (in museums, online, and the few I have been able to hold) with these tiny dots have some irregularity in the dots.
I have added a link to a previous discussion with some great examples.
It is said that it can not be done these tiny dots.....but I would be surprised if someone like Michi Suzuki, a great lampwork glass artist whose beads these are, would not be able to make dots like that.

About the etching. I have used chemical etching to etch my beads. These are some examples. I use a liquid acid, but I do not know the exact chemical composition. It works fast. The beads are matte within minutes. It is also a simple process: string the beads on plastic, dip them in, mix them up a bit so they are not touching each other, take them out and flush vigorously with plenty of water. I did get a drop on me once, and did not hurt or leave a mark.

The finish is different from sandblasting or tumbling. What you use depends on the result you want. Chemical etching is certainly the easiest and fastest of the three methods.

There is also another technique, called scavo, which comes from Venice. Apparantly that gives a more accurate aged look and feel. It includes potassium nitrate and heating it. I am not doing that one just yet in my home.

Finally, some people use baking soda on a bead to get a pitted surface, which resembles some types of corrosion on ancient beads.

FKmichi2015.jpg (49.7 KB)  EtchingFK20151.jpg (65.1 KB)  

Related link: Previous discussion

© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
What was used to create a matte finish on the multiple cane millefiori?
Re: Some of my thoughts -- floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
10/25/2015, 02:45:51

Matte.jpg (47.4 KB)  


Modified by Frederick II at Sun, Oct 25, 2015, 03:20:17

© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Tumbled, I think
Re: What was used to create a matte finish on the multiple cane millefiori? -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Floorkasp Post Reply
10/25/2015, 11:49:29

Purely on how they feel, I would think they are tumbled. It gives a smoother feel than etching and would work well for large quantities.



© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
The recessed areas are still shiny.
Re: Tumbled, I think -- Floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
10/25/2015, 12:24:55



© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
You mean on the millefiori?
Re: The recessed areas are still shiny. -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: floorkasp Post Reply
10/25/2015, 12:46:15

That would be consistent with tumbling. Tumbling generally does not etch the recessed areas, where the etching chemical etches all over since it is a liquid.



© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
I certainly do not claim to be an expert; I am just struggling to understand -like everyone else.
Re: Warring States Beads -- floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
10/25/2015, 00:55:37

PLEASE FORGIVE ME FOR WRITING IN ALL CAPS, BUT I NEED TO IDENTIFY MY RESPONSE ALONG SIDE OF WILL'S IDEAS.

ALSO, I AM OFFERING MY OPINION AS A COLLECTOR, NOT A SCHOLAR, BECAUSE I HAVE HANDLED HUNDREDS OF SPECIMEN'S WHILE SHOPPING IN BEIJING. AND THIS TOPIC HAS BEEN OF CONCERN TO ME FOR MANY YEARS:

Hi Fred, hi everyone,
HI WILL, HI EVERYONE,

I agree completely with Fred. THANK YOU FOR BEGINNING BY SAYING YOU ARE "AGREEING COMPLETELY WITH ME!" BUT I ALSO SEE YOU ARE AGREEING TO DISAGREE... It’s natural to disagree about ancient beads and these disagreements help us to figure out the reasoning that underlies our own spontaneous judgements. So when I saw Fred’s notes on Kika’s photograph, I thought, “I need to think about this some more.” I HAVE ALSO FOUND SIMON KWAN'S BOOK, FROM 2001, ON MY SHELVES TITLED "EARLY CHINESE GLASS." THIS BOOK HAS BEEN CAREFULLY STORED AWAY FOR NEARLY FIFTEEN YEARS AND I AM THRILLED TO FIND GOOD USE FOR IT TODAY. I didn’t have time till this afternoon when I sat down again with Kwan’s book on Ancient Chinese Glass and went through the pictures of more than a hundred eye beads in some detail. Here, for now, are my conclusions. I’ll take each of Fred’s points and note my responses. ACTUALLY THERE ARE ONLY ABOUT EIGHT TUBULAR EYE BEADS PICTURED. THERE ARE MANY EYE BEADS. BUT OVERALL, THIS PROVIDES A LARGE ENOUGH PERSPECTIVE ON SOME OF THE ISSUES AT HAND. AND CURIOUSLY, IN BEIJING'S CURIO CITY, THERE HAVE BEEN DOZENS FOR SALE ON ANY GIVEN DAY, WHEN I HAVE SHOPPED THERE.

1. “Overall surface texture much too even.” In fact, among Kwan’s glass beads a matte even surface is the norm. I NEED TO CLARIFY: I AM REFERRING TO THE POWDER LIKE, CHALKY WHITE SURFACE FILM ON KIKA'S RED, WHITE AND BLACK TUBE, WHICH NONE OF THE OTHER BEADS SHOW. AND REVIEWING EVERYTHING IN THE BOOK, I CAN SEE MORE VARIETY IN SURFACE TEXTURE THAN KIKA'S RED, WHITE AND BLACK EXAMPLE…ALTHOUGH, SOMETIMES, EVER SO SLIGHT. Of all the glass eye beads 31 out of 42 have a surface that is flat and even rather than shiny. THIS IS A SUBJECTIVE CALL. AGAIN, I SEE MORE VARIETY IN SURFACE TEXTURE IN KWAN THAN YOU DO. I didn’t count the few that were damaged. This surprised me because I think of these beads essentially as being bright, as they obviously once were, but actually one of the consistent signs of age is the kind of surface that Fred complains about. Most of the pottery-cored eye beads are similar, and so are almost all the non-bead eye artefacts (plaques, inlays, etc). LOOKING AT THE BOOK AS A WHOLE, THE MAJORITY OF GLASS PIECES HAVE THE INCONSISTENT SIGNS OF AGE WHICH ORDINARILY MAKE UP THE PATINA WE HAVE GROWN TO EXPECT IN ANTIQUITY. YOU CAN USE SOME OF THE EXAMPLES FROM KWAN'S BOOK TO SUPPORT YOUR THEORY. BUT I CAN USE MANY MORE EXAMPLES TO SUPPORT MY THEORY. I REPEAT: THE MOST OBVIOUS DIFFERENCE IS THE POWDERY FILM ON KIKA'S BEAD.

2. “Thin application of decoration.” Fred is partially right here as far as the white bands are concerned. The white has retained its form less than in most beads in Kwan’s collection, but the difference may possibly be explained by varying soil conditions. THIS CAN BE EXPLAINED WHEN USING HYDROFLUORIC ACID TO CREATE A FALSE PATINA. WHITE IS THE FIRST COLOR TO DEVITRIFY. Still, it’s definitely worth noting. This is the only one of Fred’s points that I would go along with wholeheartedly. THANK YOU FOR GOING ALONG WITH THIS POINT WHOLEHEARTEDLY.

EACH POINT NEEDS TO BE WEIGHED DIFFERENTLY. MY ART SENSE LEADS ME TO PLACE MUCH IMPORTANCE ON THE THICKNESS OF DECORATION: THIS REVEALS THE ARTIST'S INTENT AND SKILL IN APPLICATION: THE REASON THAT WARRING STATES BEADS HAVE BEEN SO HIGHLY REGARDED IS EXPLAINED IN A PICTURE IN ONE OF FLOOR'S POSTS ABOVE: "WITH THEIR NEAT AND RIGOROUS FORM OF DECORATIVE DESIGNS, CLASSIC MATERIAL COLORS, THEY ARE SEEN AS THE PINNACLE OF THE WORLD'S ANCIENT DRAGONFLY EYE GLASS BEADS." MY PERSONAL ARTISTIC SENSIBILITY MAKES ME FEEL THAT KIKA'S RED, WHITE AND BLACK BEAD IS CARELESS BY COMPARISON WITH MOST CLEARLY IDENTIFIABLE WARRING STATES ERA BEADS.

3. “Dots should be uniform and filling drilled holes.” In fact, this is quite incorrect. EXPERTS DISAGREE AS TO HOW THESE BEADS WERE CONSTRUCTED. THE WAY THAT I RECENTLY HEARD IT FROM JAMEY ALLEN AND YEARS AGO FROM SPECIALISTS IN BEIJING, IS THAT EXAMPLES WHICH BEST ILLUSTRATE EXCELLENCE IN DESIGN HAVE HAD SHALLOW CAVITIES DRILLED IN ORDER TO CAREFULLY DISTRIBUTE THE DOTS. KIKA'S BEAD SEEMS SLOPPY USING KWAN'S COLLECTION FOR COMPARISON. KWAN'S BOOK SHOWS A VARIETY OF TECHNIQUES IN THIS REGARD. AND MY EYES GRAVITATE TOWARD PERFECTION, WHICH I FEEL BEST ILLUSTRATES THE REASON FOR THE IMPORTANCE OF THE WARRING STATES BEAD. First of all the holes are not “drilled”; they are of course created by the drops of glass as they are applied to the core cylinder. And they are seldom uniform in size, presumably because of the difficulty in controlling exactly the quantity of glass. In Kwan’s book only 6 out of 21 beads with this kind of decoration have dots that could be described as being more or less uniform; all the others vary widely in size. WE CAN ONLY ASSUME THAT EVEN SIMON KWAN REALIZES THE NEED FOR FURTHER STUDY BY INCLUDING CHEMICAL ANALYSIS FOR THE PIECES ILLUSTRATED IN HIS BOOK. IN MY EXPERIENCE, WHEN STUDYING CONNOISSEUR COLLECTIONS THERE ARE ALWAYS MISTAKEN IDENTITIES; I WOULD SUSPECT THAT SIMON KWAN'S BOOK IS NO EXCEPTION. I’ll attach a photo of a bead that has lost its dots (as most do) that is in the collection of the Royal Ontario Museum in Toronto. It’s a bead I’ve been able to examine closely; it was added to the collection in the early twentieth century. As you can see there’s no uniformity in these holes, andthey certainly weren’t drilled. I AM NOT SAYING THEY WERE ALL DRILLED. BUT IT APPEARS TO ME THAT SOME OF THE BEST ONES MAY HAVE BEEN DRILLED.

4. “Patina lacking in recessed areas.” This is a subjective judgement. To my eye, these areas where the glass decoration has worn away look exactly as they should. I have several of the pottery-cored glass eye beads and the areas of wear look exactly like this. THANK YOU FOR ACKNOWLEDGING THAT THIS IS SUBJECTIVE JUDGEMENT. PERSONALLY, I SEE NO EXPLANATION FOR THE RECESSED AREAS TO HAVE THE SAME SURFACE TEXTURE AS THE TOP OF THE BEAD. ESPECIALLY SINCE THE INTERIOR OF THE BEAD APERTURE IS STAINED. TO ME, IT IS AS THOUGH A COPYIST NEGLECTED TO COMPLETE THE JOB.

5. “These (central) lines should be perfectly centred.” No, they shouldn’t, and they’re not in most (70%) of the beads that have these central bands in Kwan’s book. These beads are very carefully made, but their geometry is not perfect - nor need it be. HERE AGAIN, WE DISAGREE. BY COMPARISON WITH THE EXAMPLES IN KWAN'S BOOK AND THE SHANGHAI EXHIBIT, THE EQUATORIAL LINES ON KIKA'S BEAD ARE VERY OFF CENTER. ALTHOUGH I AGREE THERE IS NO ABSOLUTE PERFECTION IN ANY OF KWAN'S EXAMPLES. PERHAPS THE WORD "PERFECTION" IS A WORD I SHOULD NOT BE USING FOR WARRING STATES BEADS. BUT BY COMPARISON, I SEE AN EXTREME DISPARITY BETWEEN KIKA'S AND KWAN'S EXAMPLES -AS WELL AS FLOOR'S EXAMPLES FROM THE SHANGHAI MUSEUM EXHIBIT.

6 “Peculiar white, red and black combination (of colours).” Here again, Fred may be partially right. THIS IS THE DEAD GIVEAWAY. THERE IS NOT ONE EXAMPLE IN ANCIENT CHINESE GLASS THAT I AM AWARE OF WHICH SUPPORTS THIS PARTICULAR COLOR COMBINATION. A PERSON CAN MAKE A CASE FOR DISCOLORATION OVER TIME, BUT WHERE ARE SIMILAR EXAMPLES? This actual combination of colours is unusual, but each does occur frequently in Warring States beads. THIS PARTICULAR RED COLOR IN KIKA'S BEAD IS CONSISTENT WITH TODAY'S GLASS. NOT IN ANTIQUITY. However, I haven’t yet come across an example of these tubular beads that has the small dot decoration in this reddish brown colour; they are generally white on the glass beads, though the dots of the eyes on the pottery-cored beads are various colours - blue, brown or yellow. How to weight this in the overall picture is a matter of personal judgement. For some it may be decisive; for me, because I think the bead is authentic, it can easily be explained by beadmakers playing with the available resources and trying out new arrangements of the patterns - which obviously happened constantly in this period of intense experimentation.
Incidentally, I ought to point out that it’s quite difficult to know what the original colours of these Warring States beads sometimes were. I think the core tube was almost certainly a strong blue, but the red dots might have actually been a shade of purple that was common in monochrome glass at the time. I’ll attach an ear ornament of mine (slightly later, Han dynasty) that was accidentally broken; the dull weathered surface opened up to reveal a beautiful bright purple.
So there we have it, more kindling for the disagreement. Whatever the conclusion, it’s great to have a chance to talk about these wonderful beads.
All the best,
Will

WHEN I SEE HOW EXPERTS CAREFULLY COUCH THEIR OPINIONS, I FEEL I HAVE MUCH TO LEARN IN THIS REGARD.

FURTHERMORE, WE DON'T COMPLETELY KNOW WHAT KWAN'S BOOK SAYS. DISCUSSIONS ARE WRITTEN ENTIRELY IN CHINESE. ONLY THE TITLES OF BEADS ARE OFFERED IN ENGLISH. SCHOLARS DEDICATED TO THIS SUBJECT ARE REQUIRED TO DECIPHER COMPARATIVE EVIDENCE IN CHINESE. I AGREE THAT THIS IS ONLY MORE KINDLING FOR DISAGREEMENT. AND IT IS GREAT FOR ME TO HAVE BEEN FORCED TO TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT SIMON KWAN'S COLLECTION AND TALK ABOUT THESE BEADS. THIS SUBJECT IS BECOMING MORE PROBLEMATIC AS COPYISTS FULFILL INCREASING DEMAND IN CHINA. TYPICALLY THIS IS PART OF THE DRAMA WHEN SLEUTHING IN THE ANTIQUITIES MARKET.

WITH MUCH LOVE TO KIKA, WILL AND EVERYONE IN OUR LITTLE BEAD WORLD,
Just Fred

P.S. ORDINARILY, I WOULD HAVE USED A DIFFERENT COLOR AND UPPER AND LOWER CASE TEXT TO DISTINGUISH MY RESPONSE TO WILL.



Modified by Frederick II at Sun, Oct 25, 2015, 04:41:42

© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
thanks Frederick
Re: I certainly do not claim to be an expert; I am just struggling to understand -like everyone else. -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: kika Post Reply
10/25/2015, 06:38:14

Yes! this debate is fascinating!
I can bring 2 precisions:
1) you say:
ESPECIALLY SINCE THE INTERIOR OF THE BEAD APERTURE IS STAINED. TO ME, IT IS AS THOUGH A COPIEST WAS NOT WILLING TO COMPLETE THE JOB.
No, I take a coton and it is soil. There are absolutely not stained.
2) Unfortunately for our debate, only pics are not suffisant to see exactly a piece.

kika

© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
"Frosted on the outside with a freshly minted dirt filling on the inside."
Re: thanks Frederick -- kika Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
10/25/2015, 09:15:07

I feel that I do not need to see the bead in person; it is obvious to me.

Although I am known for the Japanese ojime bead, I have much more experience with Chinese beads. When shopping for ojime, my eyes were drawn toward the closest examples, Chinese beads. There are countless more Chinese beads to study. And I started in beads just before the market was flooded with copies in the seventies and eighties. Sometimes the difference between the old and the new is very subtle. Standing on my head to explain the difference is exhausting. And few collectors outside of China seem to care.

I am beginning to see why young people are more interested in technology than archeology. In my case, I would rather buy beads than a new iPhone.

Just Fred



Modified by Frederick II at Sun, Oct 25, 2015, 15:51:41

© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Remember Dragnet?
Re: Warring States Beads -- floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
10/25/2015, 09:51:41

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj-qhIGTXdU

And Jack Webb, star of the show, was originally married to Julie London. I hope she was not Crying a River over her beads. After all, they are:

Just Beads



Modified by Frederick II at Sun, Oct 25, 2015, 10:30:57

© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
"Drilled" holes and "modern" red
Re: Warring States Beads -- floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Will Post Reply
10/25/2015, 20:01:38

I ‘m afraid we’re in danger of simply repeating ourselves, and getting dug in to our original positions. I still find myself not agreeing with most of Fred’s responses, but I’ll try to be brief (fond hope!!!) and deal with only two of them:

1 The supposedly “drilled” holes. It’s foolhardy, I know, to disagree with Jamey Allen because he is so much more knowledgeable than any of us about bead history and technology. But I agree with Floor on this. I simply can’t see the rationale for the claim that the holes for the “lattice pattern” (as Kwan calls it) of tiny dots on Warring States glass beads were drilled out of the cold core of the glass tube and then, presumably, topped up with molten glass. I’m attaching again to this post the bead from the ROM that has lost its glass dots. I hope anyone who is reading this will look at it closely. To my eyes, the holes are neither uniform in size nor in shape, which is how they would presumably appear if they were drilled. Instead, they look much more like the holes that occur when one element in a glass pattern drops out of the core beneath it. So, if this is a characteristic that is found on one undoubtedly authentic bead (and it appears on many more), it can’t be a sign of another bead being a fake, can it? I’ll also attach an ancient West Asian bead where a similar effect is seen; so far there’s no theory I’ve heard of that those holes were drilled.

Fred talks about his view being shared by “specialists in Beijing,” and it would be good to know who they are. I should point out that there’s nothing that I can find in Kwan’s text to support the suggestion that the holes were drilled, and I can see nothing in the research of the two most significant scholars who have studied ancient Chinese glass in recent years, An Jiayao and Gan Fuxi. It would certainly be important to them, because this would be the first example of glass in China being worked in a lapidary way, and an example of jade technology spilling into glass beadmaking.

2. The supposedly “modern” colour of the small reddish brown dots on Kika’s beads. In fact, there are several examples of similar red-brown eyes on beads in Kwan’s collection; look at examples on pages 185 and 187 for a start. There are many more. This red-brown glass is also quite close to the rich brown that one finds in the glazed patterns on many of the Warring States beads with pottery-cores. In any case, it’s definitely not a “modern” red.

Finally, I would just refer to Fred’s claim that: “At times, Curio City in Beijing has been flooded with better copies than (Kika’s) black red and white one.” Well if there is such a flood of such copies, surely there must be many images of them somewhere, in archives or for sale on the internet. I’d love to see just one.

All the best,

Will

Will:ROM:WS.jpg (92.9 KB)  Will:WA481a.jpg (83.9 KB)  


© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Thanks for your analysis
Re: "Drilled" holes and "modern" red -- Will Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: kika Post Reply
10/26/2015, 16:51:39

Hi Will,
For you some pics of a bead. The blue is due to the iridescence. Warring States again

DSC05865.jpg (170.5 KB)  DSC05867.jpg (168.9 KB)  
kika

© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Thanks for your analysis
Re: Thanks for your analysis -- kika Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: kika Post Reply
10/26/2015, 16:54:32

and the other faces of the same bead.

DSC05866.jpg (181.3 KB)  DSC05868.jpg (166.6 KB)  
kika

© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Difference of opinion...
Re: Warring States Beads -- floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
10/27/2015, 01:52:08

Dear Will,

My self esteem is not derived from my role as a bead researcher. I am Just Fred -a compulsive bead shopper, having spent hours, days, and months in Beijing, Shanghai, and Hong Kong with my eyes wide open and my wallet tightly shut -swimming with the sharks and a translator at my side ten to twelve hours a day.

The weather in Beijing is nearly identical to New York City. It is very hot in the summer and very cold in the winter. Therefore, I almost always stay next door to Curio City and the Panjiayuan market so that I may take breaks in my hotel room. The copies which enter the shops of the finest dealers seem to pop up like mushrooms -with striking similarity and at the same time. Prices justify one of a kind copies. Today, there are three Curio or "Antique Cities" next door to one another in the Panjiayuan area. This area offers at least one thousand shops and land mines of opportunities.

In Simon Kwan's book you point out pages 185 and 187: I see a reddish brown color in his beads which I feel conflicts with the reddish red colors in Kika's bead. I have often heard that my sense of color is astute. And there seems to be agreement between a prominent bead magazine editor and Jamey Allen that some of the red colors in Kika's bead appear to be modern or restored. Bead specialists disagree. Difference of opinion among recognized experts is part of the drama which makes sleuthing in the bead world challenging and fun.

Unfortunately, even the finest examples of Warring States Beads which have surfaced during the last ten to twenty years are guilty until proven innocent. Chinese copyists are that good.

Will, everyone loves hearing from you because you're an ingenious role model for diplomacy. You are my first choice to lead a panel discussion on Warring States Beads at the next International Bead Conference.

Kind Regards,
Just Fred



Modified by Frederick II at Tue, Oct 27, 2015, 19:10:59

© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
the red color
Re: Difference of opinion... -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: kika Post Reply
10/27/2015, 07:43:08

I have to rectify: I did make a pic but the light was not good enough, and so that we see better, I increased colors, I do not think that we can trust of the whole the nuance of red on a pic. The red of this bead is absolutely not reddish red, it fires at the brown, in reality, like on the other beads of this period.

kika

© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Warring States Beads some new ones
Re: Warring States Beads -- floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Odan Post Reply
10/28/2015, 07:52:29

I think I got these as warring state beads.
These beads are around 16x16mm's. The perf
s still have release compound inside.
These beads are east to age but...they are still very nice.
Just thought I'd add my 2 cents worth.
See ya at the forum

w_1.jpg (121.4 KB)  w_2.jpg (84.6 KB)  


© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Please observe the "frosted" look of Odan's beads and compare with Kika's.
Re: Re: Warring States Beads some new ones -- Odan Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
10/28/2015, 15:43:42

The effects obtained in hydrofluoric acid varies and I don't know why.
And, the powdery "frosted" look is just one of many results possible.

Just Fred



Modified by Frederick II at Wed, Oct 28, 2015, 18:08:22

© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Please observe the "frosted" look of Odan's beads and compare with Kika's.
Re: Please observe the "frosted" look of Odan's beads and compare with Kika's. -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: kika Post Reply
10/29/2015, 03:46:14

HI Frederick
What do you mean? the red color of my bead has nothing to do with these beads

kika

© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Warring States Beads
Re: Warring States Beads -- floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Austin Cooper Post Reply
10/28/2015, 17:49:20

A few small examples in my collection. Don't know if they are real or fakes.
ac

Mvc-001f.jpg (29.4 KB)  Mvc-003f.jpg (29.6 KB)  


© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Re: Warring States Beads
Re: Re: Warring States Beads -- Austin Cooper Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Austin Cooper Post Reply
10/28/2015, 17:50:03

Mvc-005f.jpg (37.1 KB)  Mvc-006f.jpg (36.8 KB)  


© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Re: Re: Warring States Beads
Re: Re: Re: Warring States Beads -- Austin Cooper Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Austin Cooper Post Reply
10/28/2015, 17:51:24

Mvc-002f.jpg (27.6 KB)  


© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Break out the LIBS spectrometer?
Re: Re: Warring States Beads -- Austin Cooper Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
10/28/2015, 22:00:57

Christopher Kim's 2012 article is definitely worth a read.

http://brown.edu/Departments/Joukowsky_Institute/undergrad/prizes/Kim2012.pdf - nice charts and maps and illustrations


And someone's evidently been working on the Wikipedia info:

Eye Beads
The earliest types of glass objects found in China are polychrome eye beads or dragonfly-eyed beads. The beads are found in burials from the late Spring and Autumn and early Warring States periods (early 5th century BC) up to late Warring State – early Western Han period. Most beads have a monochrome glass body covered by several layers of coloured glass. The layers of different colour glass are applied in alternating fashion to produce concentric circles.The patterns of circles resemble eyes, giving the beads their name. This style of bead originated in the Near East during the mid 2nd millennium BC. The stylistic influence later spread to the Mediterranean, Central Asia and China.

During the early 5th century BC, the imported eye beads were considered exotic objects. They were mainly deposited in high status burials, such as the tomb of a male aristocrat of the Qi state at Langjiazhuang, Shadong. This situation changes during the middle and late Warring States Period. Eye beads from this period are manufactured from Chinese lead-barium glass and are mainly found in the regions of the middle Yangzi River Valley, indicating a connection to the Chu kingdom. In this context, the beads became more common and available to a larger part of the Chinese society. Evidence of this is the presence of eye beads in medium and small burials, with modest funerary furnishings, as well as large, high-status burials.

The use of eye beads in burials rapidly declined at the beginning of the Western Han period. This is believed to be a result of the invasion of Chu kingdom territories by Qin and Han armies at the end of the 3rd century. The collapse of the Chu kingdom would have brought production of eye-beads to an end.


Related link: Early Chinese Lead-Barium Glass Its Production and Use from the Warring States to Han Periods (475 BCE-220 CE)

© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Yes! Very good! Thank you
Re: Break out the LIBS spectrometer? -- beadiste Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Kika Post Reply
10/31/2015, 23:17:06

kika

© Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users


Forum     Back