Some (not all) of the beads called 'nila' in parts of W. Africa are Medieval European drawn beads, early relatives of the 'early blues' found in the Americas. Both of these types are called 'nila' in parts of West Africa, but the ones you're talking about aren't found in the Americas. None of these is the Indian 'trade wind' bead.

HI DC,

It's a big can or worms. Or, it's "bait" for discussion and disagreement, all around.

The name "nila" indicates the color blue. So, any blue bead MIGHT be fairly called a "nila" bead, from a West African context. This includes old imported beads, Venetian beads, and even powderglass beads.

However, when first popularized as a bead name from West Africa (almost North Africa—meaning Mauritania; and popularized by the Oppers), the name was applied to a particular bead, that was most often blue, but also appeared in other colors (such as green, and perhaps yellow and violet). What these beads have in common is their manufacturing technique. They are drawn beads, that had been cold-separated, and eventually slumped. It is not unreasonable to wonder if they may have been slumped in West Africa. The technique was exploited by Middle Eastern beadmakers ca. 1000 years ago (as I have demonstrated).

My colleague Peter Francis Jr. suggested that nila beads were or might be Indo-Pacific beads. (This is a name he invented, and one I routinely use and do not disapprove of). However, I am not inclined to agree with him that slumped West African beads are Indo-Pacific beads. I cannot rule it out, but I am inclined to doubt it. To me, the glasses and the beads look more Middle Eastern than from India or Indonesia. Plus, since I can demonstrate that Middle Eastern glass-beadmakers made slumped beads, and I don't know of any such indigenous beads from India or Indonesia that were, I tend to think the beads in question are most likely NOT Indo-Pacific beads. (We are brought back to the "local slumping" idea),

About three years ago, an interesting book was published, proposing that folks from Indonesia immigrated to East and South Africa, a long time ago. The author uses beads as one possible indication of trade and colonization. (I was his primary consultant regarding African and Indonesian bead information.) Along this line of discussion, at the IBBC in Istanbul in November, we will have a lecture that takes up this question of Indonesian beads in Africa. I look forward to reading and hearing what her point of view will be.

A former friend of mine has mucked-up the issue of "nila" beads, on several levels. He has disputed the use of the name (for the reasons I mention above, which I understand and respect, concerning linguistic meaning and intent). He has also confused his audience by an inaccurate estimation of the colors of the beads in question (saying some are "light blue"—which they are not). But, most importantly, he has taken two different groups of beads and has artificially amalgamated them into one group. I say this is because he does not understand glass technology, and he has mistakenly included beads that are not slumped. I believe these non-slumped beads are heat-rounded-en-masse drawn beads—no different from conventional seedbeads, such as have been made at Venice (probably) for ca. 500 years (+ or -). In fact, they ARE those beads. Although the slumped beads and the rounded beads have different shapes, this chap seems to think 'they are all alike.' But they are not alike to me. I see the Venetian beads as later variations upon Middle Eastern beads, probably dating from the 16th and 17th centuries. And I compare them to other recognized Venetian beads of that period (in terms of the glass and a broadly similar manufacture—these being drawn beads).

Are there Indo-Pacific beads in Africa. Yes, there definitely are.

Is it possible that Indo-Pacific beads are the source of slumped beads (that were most likely slumped in Africa)? Yes, it is possible; but it is not probable.

Is it possible that Middle Eastern were imported into Africa, arriving slumped? Yes, it is very possible.

Is it possible that Middle Eastern beads were imported into Africa and locally slumped. Yes, it is very possible. Glass-beadmakers in West Africa still pursue similar techniques, in their local altering of imported beads.

Is it possible that early Venetian drawn beads should be considered likewise with the above? Certainly. "Nila" beads—that is, slumped drawn beads of whatever colors, found in West Africa, MIGHT be Venetian beads, or at least in-part Venetian beads. But they should not be confused with non-slumped beads (whether they be rounded Venetian beads, or Indo-Pacific beads). (I discussed some of this in my presentation for Bead Expo in 1994 at Santa Fe.)

I'm sorry there is no more-definite answer than this, at this time. Come to Istanbul!

Jamey

You seem to want to gloss over this fact. If certain ones aren't 'light blue', then what color are they. light 'nila'? You also want to forget (if you ever knew) that the so-called 'nila' in Mauretania includes both the squashed ones and the ones called 'early blue' in NA contexts. They differ only in finishing style. You make it all too complicated.

Please do not ascribe actions to me. I am not "glossing over" anything.

The colors of these beads can be accurately characterized. I have done it a number of times. You think "light blue" indicates the more greenish blue that is in contrast to the "dark blue" that is violet-blue (like lapis lazuli). Many amateurs make this mistake.

It is I (not you nor anyone else) who first noticed the relationship between "early blue" Venetian beads and even earlier beads that are from the Islamic Period, and that these beads are in the arena of the "nila" issue. Don't make me laugh. I've studied these beads for over twenty years.

You should read more carefully. You are suggesting I don't think/believe/report stuff that I just wrote here YESTERDAY.

What beads are "squashed" ? (That is an error.)

"They differ only in finishing style." Sure, they might, IF they happen to have the same origin. That is not so-determined yet. The glass of early blue Venetian beads, and the slumped "nila" beads is not the same. However, they are similar. Furthermore it is the "finishing style" that is a critical element of the issue. I'm sorry you don't get that.

No, I do not overcomplicate things. You fail to understand how complex the situation is. But wait a second. At the first, I was "glossing over... facts." Please.... Help is all around you..., but you reject it.

JDA.

'nila' means blue. And actually, I don't care how long you've been 'studying' these beads. The relationship between the two beads is obvious. Show us some of your drawn Middle Eastern candidates (probably some of what we're talking about anyway, as if you can tell us where drawn ME beads are made). Actually, I noticed the realtionship 28 years ago! That's before you! The glasses are not the same? Let's see your glass analyses! As if old beads are consistent in composition from batch to batch over centuries. The situation is not complex. Look at the beads and make the call. Help is all around you too, Mr. Expert. Ask any Maure. The beads are light blue or dark blue. If you're still confused, seek help from Maures.

Have you been dredging canals or should we just accept it as fact?

It would be instructive if folks could help out by posting examples of the various beads discussed in your initial reply, Jamie, so we can compare the colors, glass appearance and finishing differences. In the Gallery on this site there are many nice examples of the beads referred to here in Mauritania as "nila" (I'm attaching one), but I find few references to or pictures of Indo-Pacific beads. Anyone have any well-established Indo-pacific beads in the same color families as the nila bead? Also I'd love to see a violet nila, if anyone has one to post. diplocase

Hi DC,

The beads you show are very typical specimens of slumped drawn beads, that have been called "nila." They are excellent, in terms of their condition—which can be very decayed and white.

Regarding Indo-Pacific beads. These (according to Peter Francis) were originally made in India by Tamil beadmakers. Over a period that persisted through 1000 years, this beadmaking was transfered a number of times, to as many as about twelve different locations—including Vietnam, Thailand, and Java. The beads produced in these areas are similar—in being small heat-rounded drawn glass beads. And any group generally features some colors that are in-common with most other groups. But there are also variations from region to region, industry to industry.

I do not claim to have studied this topic carefully. Not nearly as carefully as did Peter (who took up the reigns of the issue from van der Sleen, and produced a prodigious amount of new material—that includes describing the inheritors of the industry in all of the locations he was able to document, and the products they made). Peter's final analysis of Indo-Pacific beads can be found in the last book he composed before he unexpectedly died while traveling in West Africa in 2002. The book is titled "Asia's Maritime Bead Trade." (Recently, Jim Lankton has called to question some of Peter's ideas, as did I over the years. So, of course, we should expect some revision of some of his ideas—whether these be basic big ideas, or merely details, or both.)

Anyway, the point is, there are so many groups of Indo-Pacific beads, I would be hard-pressed to say whether there is a color that matches the glass typical of slumped West African beads. In general, I can say with confidence, that they did make translucent teal blue beads, that are similar in color to "nila" beads. In fact, in South Africa, where "garden roller" beads were made in the early 20th C., the beads used in this beadmaking were translucent teal Indo-Pacific beads. I would have to guess these came from Java and/or India. As I mentioned previously, at the IBBC in Istanbul, we have two papers scheduled that deal with this issue. I hope these will include new information that surpasses my current state of knowledge.

Can I show some photos of Indo-Pacific beads? Sure. I have already shown a number of them in the past, here and at NBS and my Groups. In fact, I have shown the beads I own that were recovered in East Africa, at the exact location where van der Sleen beach-combed them over sixty years ago. However, I think you may be looking for something like an exact color match—and as I wrote, I don't know that I have one.

The problem is, any time you draw a comparison between any two things, you can talk about how they are alike, or how they are different—and whether or not they are more alike or more different. I find all of this very frustrating, because it usually incites a dichotomy, with people taking sides. ("They don't look different to me"....."they are so different there is no relationship"...., etc.) I tend to not see these issues in terms of black-&-white (except when unlike things are compared, where the comparison is meaningless), so I am not surprised by the variables, and the judgment of them and of the beads. But I am surprised when people take sides, or instantly becomes convinced there is a side to take....

Be that as it may, I'll try to post some images.

Jamey

These next few images may fit into this Indo-Pacific bead group.
There are a few different colors and techniques represented on this strand. Shades of blue red gold & purple... Slumped and joined,gold glass w/swirls-->(to copy agate?), some are two-toned(blue/purplish), Some hot-pinched (collar type). Enjoy!

Kirk,

The question "are they West African?" is a way of saying, "did they come to you from a West African context, or from some other context?"

The question in no way implies that I think nor that anyone else should think these beads were MADE in West Africa. Under those circumstances, I would have asked "were these beads made in West Africa?"—which I wouldn't have to, since I know they are not. Let's not pretend that you do not fully understand this. Who do you think you're kidding?

Nevertheless, three points:

1) I have speculated that it may be possible that slumped beads were so-slumped IN West Africa. If that were true, a "made in Africa" proposition would not be entirely incorrect. (Even though that wasn't my point.)

2) No one, not I and certainly not you, knows that these are "European" beads. It is not impossible, of course. I speculated about this possibility (as you well know) when these beads appeared from out of Africa, in the American marketplace in the late 1980s. It is easier to believe their ultimate origin is or most likely would have been the Middle East.

3) A problem with assigning an origin to these beads is the apparent fact that the only industry having made a comparable bead would be whomever in the Middle East made slumped beads there. There are no Indo-Pacific/Indian beads like this, and there are no Venetian/European beads like this. (So, of course none are found in the "New World.")

It is really unfortunate that you would rather argue about spurious details of no consequence, and to make-up stuff, than to share whatever real knowledge you have. You seem like a very bitter man.

JDA.

I doubt that you are sorry at all.

JDA.

Harvey:
The question "are they West African?" is a way of saying, "did they come to you from a West African context, or from some other context?" #Just a lame excuse for not being clear. Like when they say "African trade beads" instead of "European trade beads".

The question in no way implies that I think nor that anyone else should think these beads were MADE in West Africa. Under those circumstances, I would have asked "were these beads made in West Africa?"—which I wouldn't have to, since I know they are not. Let's not pretend that you do not fully understand this. Who do you think you're kidding? #Who are you kidding with your amateur vagueness?

Nevertheless, three points:

1) I have speculated that it may be possible that slumped beads were so-slumped IN West Africa. If that were true, a "made in Africa" proposition would not be entirely incorrect. (Even though that wasn't my point.)#So-slumped? Beads are made where they're made and modified where they're modified. Slumping is not making and if they were slumped in Africa but made elsewhere, they wouldn't be African. You confuse us continually with a lack of clarity.

2) No one, not I and certainly not you knows that these are "European" beads. #Sorry, I know. You don't.
It is not impossible, of course. I speculated about this possibility (as you well know #I don't know you or your speculations) when these beads appeared from out of Africa, in the American marketplace in the late 1980s. It is easier to believe their ultimate origin is or most likely would have been the Middle East. #Believe what you want. Show us the confirmed ME beads to match.

3) A problem with assigning an origin to these beads is the apparent fact that the only industry having made a comparable bead would be whomever in the Middle East made slumped beads there.#Show us slumped beads from the ME to match.
There are no Indo-Pacific/Indian beads like this, and there are no Venetian/European beads like this. (So, of course none are found in the "New World.")#Actually, all what you're showing, if not tradewinds from Asia, are European, just with different finishes. Compare 'early blues'.

It is really unfortunate that you would rather argue about spurious details of no consequence, and to make-up stuff, than to share whatever real knowledge you have. You seem like a very bitter man.#This kind of gratuitous commentary is spurious and of no consequence. Who do you think you are?

JDA.

Why oh why do you say the same nonsense and make the same demands of me over and over?

We all know that you are Kirk Stanfield, and not some guy named "Harvey." (It is impossible for you to disguise your sour nature and ill temper. Your tone is unmistakable.)

We all know you are disingenuous and a liar.

You just hurt your own credibility.

JDA.

Quote: "Also I'd love to see a violet nila, if anyone has one to post. diplocase"

Thought these may be close to what diplocase was looking for, or they may not.

The strand was won at auction but is consistent with African market stringing techniques, fishing line tied w/a cotton wrap end.

The only beads refered to as "Indo-Pacific" I've seen were opaque and not like these translucent ones I showed, thus the first statement in my original post reads "The next few images may fit into this Indo-Pacific bead group"..... but it is likely they may not.

Hi Charles,

Yes, you wrote, "These next few images may fit into this Indo-Pacific bead group."

If Indo-Pacific beads are heat-rounded beads, and your beads are slumped and hot-pinched beads, then your beads cannot be "Indo-Pacific" beads. See? That was what I was commenting upon.

I admit the beads you show seem to be violet versions of "nila" beads (in the sense of their manufacture—being slumped drawn beads, but also including hot-pinched beads). As such, they are pretty rare beads, indeed. But they are not Indo-Pacific beads, as I guess you now understand.

As I show in the image I posted, the teal-blue varieties of actual Indo-Pacific beads are translucent. This is not unusual.

Be well. Jamey

Charles,

Note the conjoined double beads. This clearly indicates that the beads you're showing are from and associated with hot-pinched beads.

Indo-Pacific beads are not hot-pinched beads.

It is sort of counterproductive to confuse the issue. Let's show actual Indo-Pacific beads.

Since some of your beads appear to be slumped, I'd guess they are from West Africa.

Information is power. It's also context-giving and helpful.

Jamey

no one takes the time to sort them out carefully into the 'different' origins or perceived origins. Have you seen amanfrafo's infamous paper called something like '14 strings of Roman beads'? The resident expert on this site will want to take credit for every in that paper too.

Don't be confused by the various finishing techniques. They're all drawn beads with visible striations. The 'slumped' ones just seem earlier than the other ones. There in Mauritania, you should be able to find all variaties and it's clear the slumped ones are the same as the heat rounded. What color are they in the local Maure French? Tradewind beads are not common at all in W. Africa and if you saw some, they would be distinctly different from the standard 'nila'.

I tried to think of a fitting reply, but could not. You have made me laugh out loud, for which I am grateful.

...such vivid memories! sm

Hi Steve,

Perhaps you might try to not think of this as "bickering."

JDA.

Let's face it. The question "are the colloquial 'nila' really 'tradewind' beads" got answered. It's a no-shitter. But this clown expert you have has to pretend to have some exclusive knowledge to keep the situation a big mystery. Re-read the posts. It's not bickering. It's e a thick layer of BS from some goofball.

You make me giggle! Yeah, I do sorta know you, and we'd have fun if we ever met up!