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Greenstone bead question
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Posted by: TASART Post Reply
04/23/2007, 17:41:21

I have some very pretty beads from the African trade, I don't know the material! Maybe Serpentine? Can anyone help with ID please?
Thank you, Thomas

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closer view of Greenstone beads
Re: Greenstone bead question -- TASART Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: TASART Post Reply
04/23/2007, 17:42:13

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Re: Greenstone bead question
Re: Greenstone bead question -- TASART Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: TASART Post Reply
04/23/2007, 17:42:59

interesting way of attaching a bead on the strand

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Re: Greenstone bead question, Serpentine
Re: Greenstone bead question -- TASART Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: adjichristine Post Reply
04/24/2007, 01:24:48

This is an excellent strand of Serpentine fom Mauritania. There are some newly-cut strands circulating. When you see the hard work that Mauritanian women put into cutting these stones, you would understand why even the newly-cut stones are very expensive



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old & soft isn't it?
Re: Greenstone bead question -- TASART Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: redmountain Post Reply
04/24/2007, 02:11:51



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Re: Greenstone Beads
Re: Greenstone bead question -- TASART Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
04/24/2007, 03:27:39

Hi Thomas,

I would guess that you are showing a conglomeration of several things. I see beads that I suspect are most likely new, as well as some that are probably old (though no one really knows how old). The materials are most likely serpentine, quartz (green aventurine and/or something similar, perhaps without the mica), and chrysoprase (another quart family mineral). These last would be the bright green beads. I would be inclined to guess these are not old, and may not even be from this region. I'd have to suspect they might be Chinese material.

These beads are NOT "from the African trade." That's a phrase that ought to be reserved for imported beads that come to us from Africa. These are "native-made" beads. Of course, if new beads get mixed with old, and foreign with local, it can be a problem to sort out these issues. But the new foreign beads are still not "trade beads," nor "from the trade."

Be well. Jamey



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Re: Greenstone Beads
Re: Re: Greenstone Beads -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: TASART Post Reply
04/24/2007, 07:23:15

Thanks, as Christine stated these beads were found in Mauritania, I suppose they don't have to originate from there though. Quite a few have considerable wear to the perforations showing at least some extensive use as I don't believe this wear was made when the bead was created. I would say that some of the beads are possibly newer as Jamey suggests and some could be Chrysoprase or Quartz. I don't believe that all of these beads originated in China, possibly a small handful. I used the term African Trade because I got these from a wonderful African woman trader, (Afua). I did not want to imply that these were used in the same sense as we have come to see "African Trade Beads".
Thank you all! Thomas



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greenstones and Mali Wedding beads
Re: Greenstone bead question -- TASART Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: diplocase Post Reply
04/29/2007, 11:08:07

I'm working in the American Embassy in Mauritania right now. I have seen (and bought) beads very similar in appearance to these green stone beads--similar shapes, same range of green colors and degree of translucency--in both Mali and Mauritania. Jamey mentions China as a possible origin for beads like these. I can't rule that out, but specifically for the beads I bought in Mali and Mauritania, other origins seem more probable, given that until very recently there were not many Chinese beads circulating in Africa (a very few found in Great Zimbabwe ruins are the only ones I know of until the late 20th c.). For the ones I bought, perforation wear and general appearance of the beads I bought would tend to indicate a few score years of wear--although the stone is relatively soft so they may not be as old as they appear.

Change of subject:
There is a women's cooperative in Mauritania that is now making green stone beads similar to these beads, from all the stone materials Jamey mentions. They shape the beads individually, using a small portable grinder. They told me that "as young girls they used to make similar beads by rubbing the blanks on hard stone, but why bother when the grinder is so much faster?" (They are advised by a very smart foreign woman who helped them form a cooperative, but I think they are not really targeting the bead collector market. More the tourist market.)

I bought from this cooperative a set of 99 worry beads with separator beads exactly the shape of the pear-shaped multicolored Czech molded beads nicknamed "Mali wedding beads." What caught my eye was that they were working in a chocolate-and-white banded stone, and the result was visually very similar to the black and white striped Mali wedding bead.

Since the Czechs often manufactured and marketed glass imitations of some existing bead that was already popular in Africa (Czech "coral", Czech "lion teeth", etc.), this discovery has me wondering if pear-shape Mali wedding beads were modeled on some other bead already circulating in Africa? Perhaps an earlier version of these Mauritanian beads. If you go 'way back you could make a link with the "breast" beads found in neolithic sites, but I'm fishing for a connection that might have influenced the Czech bead designers in the early 20th century.

The flat triangle-shaped Czech molded beads often mixed in with the pear-shaped Mali wedding beads were modeled on similar stone beads, accoding to Collectible Beads. I bought a few of the Malian stone originals, said to date to the Ghana Empire period. The capital of the Ghana Empire was in south-eastern Mauritania and the empire included territory that is now Mauritanian and Malian. This might lend some credence to my (otherwise blue-sky) theory that the pear-shaped ones are also modeled on beads made in the western sahel.
Any ideas? diplocase

diplocase

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Re: Greenstone Beads and "Mali Wedding" beads
Re: greenstones and Mali Wedding beads -- diplocase Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
05/02/2007, 12:44:43

Dear DC,

I was first exposed to amazonite beads from Morocco and Mauritania in the mid-to-late 1970s. At that time, I was too poor to buy any—but I saw some great stuff. In particular, I knew a woman in San Francisco who had a HUGE quantity of them. For a few years she did lots of designs, combining these beads with Moroccan coral, amber, and silver.

In the 1980s, I managed to buy a strand that I still think is on par with any beads I have seen—being a good strong color (bright dark bluish-green, and tending to not be patchy or pale). So I'm pleased I have one group of these beads in my collection. I have shown them in the past (here or at NBS).

Over the years, I have seen a broad variety of "amazonite" beads from this region—including beads that are actually quartz or serpentine, and mistakenly called "amazonite." I have consistently corrected this mistake whenever I have seen it occur. The materials range from pale to dark, variegated or clear, patchy (mostly white or pale with blue/green spots), and of course, sometimes combinations of these different sorts in one strand. Also a variety of shapes and sizes. I like this stuff, and I have given it careful consideration.

In the late '80s or early '90s, a new and different brand of "ancient amazonite" beads appeared in the marketplace out of Mauritania. These were fairly crude green beads, ALWAYS marketed as "ancient." However, they have large straight perforations and generally look a bit mechanical—and have been available in big quantities. I was the first person (and almost the only one) to say these are fakes. That is, they are new beads, made to resemble and passed-off as "ancient beads." Again, I have discussed this online a number of times. I suspect this may be local material..., but who knows? I have seen some newly-mined Mauritanian amazonite about ten years ago—and it was bright blue, like colorful turquoise. At the Tucson show this year, I was shown some very beautiful new amazonite beads from Morocco, that are the more traditional color, being bluish green and darker, but still new and colorful looking.

Until quite recently, I do not recall ever seeing any "Mauritanian amazonite" beads that appeared to be brightly colored translucent material that looks like chrysoprase. I can't say there weren't any. But I hadn't seen them.

Over the past five years (+ or -), Chinese beads that are entirely foreign to Africa, have been sent to Africa, and then sold as "African beads." This was not an issue, or at least not much of an issue, before that time. But it IS an issue NOW. Along with this globalization of new beads, there is probably also the possibility of Africans acquiring rough material (as from China and anywhere in the world, but most likely passing through Chinese hands at some point), that they will then make into beads. Without a doubt, these are "African beads." But as newly-made beads they are certainly NOT "ancient beads." (In truth, no one knows how old ANY of the "Mauritanian" or "Moroccan amazonite" beads may be, even if they are old and called "prehistoric" or whatever.)

We recently had a parallel discussion of this issue, in relation to lapis lazuli and sodalite beads from Mauritania—these being nontraditional beadmaking materials in this region. Again, I suspect this is new foreign material, perhaps brought in from China, the Tucson Show, or who knows where...?

When I see a new bead from a market with which I am familiar, a bell goes off..., and I have to consider that it may be ENTIRELY new. That is, made new, and made from newly imported foreign material. That is the basis of my previous point.

Regarding the so-called "Mali wedding beads" that are new reproductions from the Czech Republic (for the most part)— I wish I had time to discuss this in some detail. But I am trying to leave the country tomorrow.

I think it may be a mistake to think of Czech products as made for such a small audience of receivers. They make products and market them wherever they can sell them. It just happens that the "light-bulb" and flat triangular pendants took-off in the Sub-Saharan area of West Africa. To some degree, these glass items copy German agate items, that are also popular there. And the German stuff copies earlier things from India. But that doesn't mean the Czechs "made these things for Mali."

I think the prototypes for the light-bulb pendants may be the separating beads made (in other materials) for Muslim prayer strands. These have a history that may be around a thousand years old. I know of similar shapes (also for Muslim prayer strands) made from phenolic plastic too. Although they are intended to be used in pairs, dividing plain beads into three sections (for the traditional Muslim rosary), I have seen whole strands or necklaces of these pendant beads.

Anyway, I hope this is food for thought. Back to packing.

Jamey



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They sure are beautiful
Re: Greenstone bead question -- TASART Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Austin Cooper Post Reply
05/04/2007, 03:51:05



Modified by Austin Cooper at Fri, May 04, 2007, 03:51:28

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