Lyn,

Thank you for bringing this up. I had not known that at least some vendors of Czech glass beads believe there is some justification for incorrectly labeling some as 'Peking glass'.

In my book this is meant to justify deception. At very least, it is meant to justify and continue ignorance! Such vendors as continue this practice are not going to tell buyers 'we call these Peking Glass because they are often called that even though we know they are not Peking Glass'.

If at some time there were a manufacturer's trade-name or line-of-goods using that term, then one could say 'this was made by X company in Czechoslovakia under the trade name Peking Glass'. This would be full disclosure. But this is not what your source appears to be saying.

Here is a picture of the kind of thing probably meant. I bought the inner strand in second-hand / 'antiques' shop decades ago; the vendor called it 'Peking Glass' even though clearly it is not. The color is intended to imitate fine green jadeite. Probably made ca. late 1950s ('sweater and pearls' era in USA). It has a kind of soft luminosity in the way light refracts through the translucent glass.

The outer strand is a rather humorous take-off on the 'jadeite-imitation' theme, same color glass, perhaps made mid-1960s for fashionable hippiedom.

I also attach another strand of beads with similar refractive quality, in a magenta color also used for 1960s fake 'cranberry glass' (imitating glass tableware of late 19th century to World War I in US). I saw some pieces of the fake 'cranberry glass' with molded-in 'Made in Hong Kong' mark. The bead strand hook has 'Italy' impressed, but the glass or beads might not have been made in Italy.

Thank you again, Lyn.

Snap

An internet search will yield many examples called Peking glass. A few of the snuff bottles are likely to be genuine Peking glass.

Peking glass beads, such as 18th century and early 19th century Court beads, are very hard to find and very costly. Glass was also made in China of much inferior workmanship, such as the beads that can be found on sewing baskets. At least some of the strands of beads called 'Peking glass' may have been made in China, but should not be called 'Peking glass'.

I cannot personally provide an image of genuine Peking glass beads.

Here is a link to beads being sold as Czech 'Peking glass'.

Snap

I am hoping for some clarifacation about this apparently popular "marketing phrase". I went to the link provided by Snap to see that the seller is using the phrase as if it has been in use as standard for who knows how long, and I am last to know about it.

With the internet age, misinformation and questionable marketing terms are so widely accepted by novices at a much faster rate than ever before. It is an unfortunate situation which is damaging the collectibles world in the long run.

However, I am not ignoring the possiblity that there may be some plausible reason for the phrase "Czech Peking".

What specifically defines "Peking" glass from other Chinese glass? Following are a few examples of Chinese glass beads from our pile. Even though the ones used on sewing baskets may be "inferior", lots of folks find them charming and they are quite sturdy.

First image is of a few beads on the lid of an intact sewing basket.

Second is of a group of translucent green glass rings. Note air bubbles.

My impression is that these are early 20th century items.

Here is a strand of lovely light green melons which I believe are Chinese.

Next, a big fat green bead, believed to be Chinese also. The old American Mercury dime is approx. 20mm in diameter.

The rings or 'bangles' and beads you show are pretty typical on the sewing baskets, I agree they seem to be pretty much 1920s-30s.

The melon beads, though. The first thing I ever read about melon beads was in Peter's book (I think!) to the effect that myriad of them were made in Japan. Here's my strand of white melon ovoids I am inclined to think are Japanese.

Never saw a melon bead on sewing basket, but that doesn't mean the Chinese weren't making them then.

Snap

There are some moulded beads and quite delicate pendants in speckled green glass in the 1920s to resemble carved jade which might easily have been produced by Czechs to cash in on the craze for chinese-looking jewellery, like the moulded Egyptian and other exotic themed beads and necklaces of that time.
Peter Francis shows individual moulded beads imitating stones ("from Korea") on p 90 of Beads of the World.
Stefany

Here's a strand that needs restauration and it has been already restaured in the past with what looks like indian beads on the far right side.
Joyce, your green bead seems to be the same as the big pinks on this strand. I have sevral of them in usual colours of chinese glass. I'll try to find them to post a picture.
Paeonia

Court necklaces were often shown on Chinese ancestor portraits. Color and composition of the necklaces were regulated by rank of person bestowed by Emperor, such as 'official of 6th degree'. Other regulated articles of dress were the color and composition of a large bead used as a hat finial, and the animal or bird depicted on an embroidered silk badge worn on the chest.

Here are links to a variety of ancestor portraits, most painted between roughly 1880 and 1930, in earlier style.

The ancestor portraits usually upgraded an ancestor's rank considerably, often showing the accessories even if the ancestor never had any such rank.

Unfortunately many of those who submitted the photos were graphically challenged. But it is possible to see how these necklaces were worn, the sizes of the beads and the configuration of the shorter 'counter' strands (derived from Tibetan prayer beads, sometimes used as abacuses).

An internet search using term 'ancestor portrait' might turn up more examples.

Snap

rev-mirror http://asianart.com/phpforum/index.php?method=detailAll&Id=18058

rev-mirror2 http://asianart.com/phpforum/index.php?method=detailAll&Id=1604

port 3a http://asianart.com/phpforum/index.php?method=detailAll&Id=1111

port 3b http://asianart.com/phpforum/index.php?method=detailAll&Id=1106

port 4 http://asianart.com/phpforum/index.php?method=detailAll&Id=1108

Hi Snap,

Thank you for your input and the links. The forum asianart looks like a great place to learn on the subject of asian antiques. I look for a place especially where I can learn on the chinese jewellery, do you happen to know some site or would you have a book that you could recommand me? Thanks in advance.

paeonia

Also do not know of book on Chinese jewelry.

Very very little has been published on Chinese beads in English. I have only seen brief paragraphs here and there.

There may be publications in Chinese, but I could not read them.

Snap

Three beads from a court necklace 17,4 x 20,3mm. The bead on the left has a "T" formed drilled hole. They are from the Qing dynasty which ended in 1911.
These are mentioned in R.K. Liu- Collectible Beads, pag 68 and Fenstermaker-The Chinese Bead, plate IV.
Does anyone know more about place and time of manufacturing?
Thanks, hans

Hello Hans,
I posted once a strand with this kind of beads.
Please go to the link below to acces to the topic and the follow ups where it was discussed.

http://beadcollector.net/cgi-bin/anyboard.cgi/openforum?cmd=get&cG=4333931323&zu=3433393132&v=2&gV=0&p=

Paeonia

hi Paeonia,
thanks for reminding the link, I was completely forgotten it.
For years I thought the beads were czech, but the drilled holes and the weel cut were so different from what I know from czech beads and lead cristal cuttings I keep looking for more information. But never found anything about time and place of manufacturing.
Greetings hans

Hello Hans,

It is possible that these or similar beads were made in China via lapidary techniques. At the least, the beads are wheel-cut to provide the surface decoration. The glass itself tends to be much more clear (bubble-free) than the common-variety glasses of many Chinese beads. And the perforations can be smaller than those of many furnace-wound beads, and do not include the typical mandrel-release of furnace-wound beads. (The channels are actually polished, or entirely smooth and transparent.)

Quite a few years ago, I speculated that this type of bead MIGHT actually be Czech (or European), altered/adapted by the Chinese. To me, they look a LOT like the beads made for European chandeliers—of which the Czechs were primary makers.

The question cannot be easily answered.

By the way, Fenstermaker was the publisher of The Chinese Bead. He was not the author. The book is a VERY unreliable source of information. I would never consult it, except as an unfortunate source of misinformation.

Jamey

Hi Jamey,
yes there are very few airbubbles in the glass and the bubbles are all globular
and not disformed what could indicate winding or drawing.
all three beads have on one side, by the hole, a small, flat pitted surface, what give me the impression that the glas is first molded and finished as bead by lapidary technique.
hans

Here are the big ones of about an inch wide but I wouldn't know the date of fabrication, nor the uses of them otherwise than for the court necklaces. If somone saw them elsewhere than on the court necklace, I would appreciate to know.
On the second picture, I bought these 4 years ago at the Beijing antique market and they seemed to me recently made, quite covered all over with clay. The reds are of usual size of an inch wide.
Do you know if chinese people make these beads only for the tourist market of bead collectors ?
Anyway, they make your suitcase really heavy on your way to home !
Thanks.
Paeonia

The pink millefiori and the chartreuse beads came from Hands of the Hills. The little blue ones came from IndoArts, collected by my friend Glenn in Burma a few years ago. I am not so sure of the little blue Burma-collected ones, but like them with the other beads. They may be newer from India or Indonesia - they had black stuff rubbed into them, to age them, which mostly washed off.

Two countries, two continents, but not to worry, just one piece of jewelry...are they telling us the satin-glass appearing jade green beads are Czech and the others are Peking? Is the origin of this designation eBay, or elsewhere? Thus far I have asked a dealer who has been importing directly from Czech Republic for about 15 years and has never heard this phrase in use. I will see them later this week and ask about it. I will see JP as well, who has been importing for much longer from the Czech Republic. If these two importers have never heard this phrase (it is allegedly in use in Czech Republic) then it is simply made up by dealers.

Arrggh, this is getting worse and worse.

'Jet glass' used in description to suggest old jet beads, which actually are made from hard coal - *not glass*.

What possessed the vendor to call black glass 'Jet glass' except as a psychological deception?

Snap

I've been buying vintage jewelry for a very long time. Most people who sell this stuff are just ignorant - as opposed to shady or malevolent. I've seen a variety of beads called "jet" and
"jet glass," when it is simply black glass. When I've told them (politely) that it wasn't jet, their reactions have run the spectrum from outrage to complete embarrassment. Many of those flea market and "antique store" sellers are now on eBay or selling on other sites, and almost none of those people specialize in vintage and/or antique beads. As far as jet is concerned, unless they have some knowledge of Victorian era jewelry, they rarely know the difference between jet and black glass.

I've found that, if you're buying online, it's a good idea to check whether the seller seems to have some bead expertise (for instance, sells a lot of beaded necklaces). Unless, of course, the photos are outstanding and you really know your beads.

Here's a link that Carole Morris posted here almost 3 years ago - very informative! Have a look around the site. I posted the workshop pages. There is a nice catalog of new jet jewelry.

Some misinformed vintage jewelry sellers refer to just about every milky bead as "Peking glass." It's a term that has come to mean absolutely nothing to me; I just tune it out when people pull out their beads to show me.
It's hard to find any old beaded jewelry these days - I mean anything made before 1940 (it's probably all on the web).
But I have found some great Venetians at flea markets over the years. Here's a lousy photo of 3 examples. (Truthfully, I have a clear memory of the source of the middle strand only. Can't say I remember where I found the other 2. )
You can still stumble upon old antique sellers who think glass beads are just junk. The round millis were sold to me by a consignment vintage clothing seller who thought they were the ugliest things she'd ever seen and wanted them out of her case. If she hadn't been such a witch, I might've been overcome with guilt and offered her more money. These beads are HUGE.
But you also stumble upon dealers who call every glass bead, even the clunkiest new ones, "antique Venetian glass from the late 1800's."

Thanks to everyone for their comments! And to Snap, 'you ain't just whistling Dixie,' friend. It does get worse and worse, especially on Ebay. I recommend anyone who might be interested to read the thread on the Ebay discussion board titled, 'Deco? Chrysoprase.' Essentially, theis ends up being a defense of calling certain Czech glass 'Peking Glass.' There is even a link to what appears to be an Ebay seminar on Czech glass given by an 'expert,' who apparently is the source of 'Czech Peking Glass.'

All of my years of research and study of old glass beads have been for nothing if this explanation is let to stand. It may be that I'm just an old pedant and shouldn't care. But the question remains: does the correct name and attribution of a bead mean anything at all? Apparently not, when it comes to Ebay. Best wishes, Lyn

1) Where is a Czech sample card that designates their "Peking" glass?

2) Why has my informant, who has been importing Czech glass from Czechs for 15
years never heard of this phrase? This importer has also done a notable amount
of research on the Czech industry, past and present.

Glass has been made in China for a long time. It may not have been continuously made.

Beginning in the late 18th century under the Qianlong Emperor, at least one glass works began making finely crafted items resembling Imperial-quality ceramics and carved jade.

Beads were also made of very fine glass for 'court' necklaces. Were these made by the same works that made the fine vases and carved snuff bottles? I don't know, but of the very few 'court' necklaces I have seen, the quality in size, color and workmanship was quite different from what can be seen on sewing baskets and in other clearly 1920s-later products.

Production of finely crafted vessels continued into the 19th century. But these were not made for export, and don't seem to have been made in very large quantities. After all, the Chinese ceramics industry was making perfectly serviceable and less fragile items for everyday table ware, so glass was neither necessary nor really more beautiful--except what was made for Court use and Court gifts.

Snap

I bought these in San Francisco in the early '60s. Are these genuine Peking glass as I have always believed? How old? Value? I was not a "collector" or bead addict at the time. Bought them to wear.
Thanks, Paula

Beads similar to the dark green ones are certainly being sold as "Peking glass", but I don't know when or where they were made.

The glass does not strike me as very high quality, and I have bought similar ones in different colors with no thought that they would be 'Peking glass'.

Snap

Hi Lyn,

I have collected Chinese glass beads since 1970. As I have remarked many times, San Francisco (where I lived from 1970 to 1986) was (and still is to some degree) a remarkable repository of Chinese goods.

One of the long-time bead collectors, who was a Founder (with me) of the Northern California Bead Society in 1977 was Mrs. Dorothy Gerrity, who was famous in Berkeley as a bead stringer and collector. Mrs. Gerrity passed away at close to the age of 85 in 1985. She used to tell interesting stories of being a young girl, walking up and down Grant Avenue in San Francisco (our Chinatown), where she was well-known to many of the shop-keepers of that time. Considering how varied and interesting were Chinese beads as late as the '70s, when I began to collect them, I can imagine how amazing all this was fifty years earlier. (And, of course, in the meantime I have spent quite a few years studying them.)

In the early 1980s, Robert Liu (of The Bead Journal, and Ornament magazine), came and spoke to the NCBS on the topic of Chinese beads. He began by saying much what I have just said here—that the Bay Area was an amazing repository of Chinese beads and goods—going back to the gold-rush days, when there was a great influx of Chinese laborers, who worked on the railroad, searched for gold, ran laundries, and pursued lots of other occupations. Robert knew he didn't have to say a lot about the variety of Chinese beads—because, basically, we had them already.

What I most vividly recall is the admonition that we NOT call the beads in-question "Peking glass." He assured us that this was essentially a misnomer that perpetuated a misunderstanding (that the beads "were made at," or "came from Peking"—or Beijing, as we say now). I usually agree with Robert's ideas and messages, as he is as careful and well-considered as am I. So, I desisted from calling any such beads "Peking," and switched to what he recommended—which is "Chinese glass beads."

So, as I read through this thread, I tend to become a bit frustrated, that over twenty-five years later, people still say "Peking glass," as though this were a useful or informative name.

Since practically none (if any) of the beads in question were made at Peking (but rather were just sold from nearby), it really would be impossible to define what might constitute a "Peking glass" bead, in contrast to any other Chinese glass bead. Of course, I could show you the beads we were offered in the 1970s, that were called this, and that formed or instigated the criteria that I used (until my conversion).

However, the Big Picture of Chinese beads is much too complicated to be encompassed by a few generalizations. The original "Peking glass" beads were furnace wound, and made in colors that imitate desirable materials (crystal, rose quartz, carnelian, amber, jade, sapphire, amethyst, "plum jade," turquoise, etc). And—clearly—the beads were made in sizes and shapes that suggest their likely (intended) use in what are called "Mandarin Court strings" (though the vast majority of such beads were NOT so-used).

But Chinese glass beads are so much more variable than this (and from several regions of China), quite a few significant and interesting beads would be segregated from inclusion. This would naturally exclude all lampwork beads, or in fact ANY beads not made by furnace-winding (so, excluding blown, drawn, and molded specimens—to mention some primary types).

Lyn, what you were told seems to me to be a garbled message from someone who doesn't know much about beads, and knows even less well how to express that small knowledge.

Because Chinese glass beads have become popular over the past 100 years, we should not be surprised that other glass industries would make similar products. Added to that (lordy, I have said this SO MANY TIMES..., "if you've seen one wound bead—you've seen them all"), the technique LENDS itself to making products that will naturally resemble the products of other manufacturers who make beads in the same manner.

Over the past thirty-five years, I have documented beads that might be mistaken for Chinese glass beads from these origins: Europe, Japan, and Korea. The European beads include Czech and Venetian groups. The Czech groups were copied by the Japanese (because the Japanese LEARNED to make beads from Czech teachers).

I suspect THIS, is the origin of the garbled information you were told. Just as Chinese beadmakers made beads to resemble desirable materials (particularly jade), the industries that copied the Chinese ALSO made jade simulants that look similar to the Chinese beads (and from glasses of other jewel-like colors as well). I can tell the difference between a Chinese and non-Chinese glass beads most of the time. I have a harder time distinguishing between Czech and Japanese beads (for the obvious reason I just stated).

I do not believe there is a formal and sanctioned name that proclaims "Czech Peking glass." Someone heard a story, and formalized it in his/her head. This happens ALL THE TIME. We have seen it happen at this very Forum.

All for now.

Jamey

Hi Jamey,

Thank you for your comments! Your summation of what has become a prickly subject is most welcome. I shall drop the words 'Peking Glass' from my nomenclature henceforth! 'Chinese Glass' it is, and should have been all along.

Best wishes, Lyn