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To collect or not to collect? That is the question…
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Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
03/01/2018, 19:13:00

Many archaeologists believe Ancient beads should not be collected because it encourages looting. While many collectors of ancient beads feel these beads may otherwise go unnoticed in museum vaults or underground. What do you think?



Modified by Frederick II at Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 01:58:35

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Re: To collect or not to collect? That is the question…
Re: To collect or not to collect? That is the question… -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: frank Post Reply
03/01/2018, 20:59:08

I have a personal perspective on looting . I lived on a small island in a huge marsh in southern New Jersey a spot that is below the Mason Dixon line and a spot that retained slaves after the rest of New Jersey stopped that horror. We had a slave cemetery on the island because the land was not considered arable.One morning we saw remains of caskets standing in holes dug the night before. Slaves were often buried with a bead or a very small collection of them but it turned out that looting was a rationalization for continuing the cultural terror. I am happy to say the desecration stopped after a group of us caught the perpetrators a week later in the act.Looting may be based in avarice but I believe it may be justified by complex social motivations in the group mind of the perpetrators culture.I no longer trust museums not to deaccession the most precious or mundane objects as this trend has escalated in the last years.Beads in personal collections that have been looted have lost their archeological value but as the spate of fabulous books on beads of late has shown their aesthetic value may not be diminished. I have a perspective of sorts but no answers to an often tragic and always thorny problem.



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Archaeology = looting in the name of science
Re: To collect or not to collect? That is the question… -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
03/01/2018, 22:09:51

Let's face facts - an enormous number of graves have been dug up by both scientists (claiming the right to do this in the name of science) and amateurs (we can call them looters if you want) - and this has been going on since ancient times when most tombs were robbed, probably before the mortar was set. In some cases the tide has turned and there are efforts to stop the desecrations and/or replace the remains back into the holy ground where our ancestors consecrated their dead. A notable example is the relatively recent return of Tutankhamun's body to a case in his original tomb.
But many pleas to stop digging up grave sites go unheeded.

Other non-burial sites are also studied / looted by professionals and amateurs. Since I don't think there will ever be enough time and money given to the professionals to examine and document every single ancient site on the planet, I vote in favor of allowing every country to figure out for themselves how to handle the amateurs. In some sense, the ancient history of a particular area belongs to all the current residents. Why not let a farmer who digs up some relics keep them or profit from them? There is a system for turning in valuable finds by amateurs in countries like England. I wonder whether it works 100% of the time. In the poorer nations, paying people to turn in relics may never happen. It's more likely that they will be confiscated by the government, and then some corrupt official will be the one to profit from a black market sale.

Beads are generally so numerous and often of little historical value when washed out of an ancient gravesite in Mali, for example, or found in a river basin in the Pacific NW. I think there are enough beads found in official archaeological digs that I don't worry about the the ones taken out by amateurs. I feel the sellers of such beads are selling a product from their country that they have worked to produce, just as if they were selling new handicrafts. The beads probably changed hands many times before the modern-day looter got hold of them and passed them along to the latest owner. It seems to be the karma of the beads, how and where they go next. I think I am even more philosophical about this now that some of my own beads have been stolen and are in the hands of new owners somewhere.



Modified by Rosanna at Thu, Mar 01, 2018, 22:13:44

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Re: To collect or not to collect? That is the question…
Re: To collect or not to collect? That is the question… -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: alipersia Post Reply
03/02/2018, 09:16:06

I think best way for governments is to make it legal buying and selling old beads.if the arachelogists problem is loosing their chances of study about those beads.they can make a law for every one owns an ancient bead to show and present their find to study and then let it to be sell.it is better or just make it illegal and send beads to museums wear house for decades and what happens to them in that time .no one knows.
I never offend arachelogists and I like their job but who can guarantee all the staff they find in digging goes to museum.
I always advice people to not dig graves.but beads just not come from graves.many time after heavy rain they go out of earth. Like what happened in jeroft sout east iran.
finally I believe dig a grave is not good but if someone found open destroyed graves with beads or on the farm .mountain or else.thst person should be able to be owner of that and sell it.
The point is studying that bead by arachelogists can give historical information but not a reason to say having old beads is illegal.
Many times I have seen BC beads on an old nomad lady.and I ask where did you find it .respond is my mother has been having this before me.
Or I see their tent has been near ancient sites and generation to generation they found beads without destroying any grave.
Ali



Modified by alipersia at Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 09:18:58

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Re: To collect or not to collect? That is the question…
Re: To collect or not to collect? That is the question… -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
03/03/2018, 05:45:29

Arch.jpg (105.4 KB)  


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Re: Re: To collect or not to collect? That is the question…
Re: Re: To collect or not to collect? That is the question… -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lopacki Post Reply
03/03/2018, 08:41:54

Coin Coin well said, wish I had this statement about a week ago. I joined a lapidary group on face book and posted a beautiful ancient agate bead for their enjoyment, one person in their comments basically told me that I was a POS for owning things like this.

Wish I had,had your comment to post in reply. We collectors have far more respect for our ancient artifacts than most professionals.

All my best ... Danny



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Hear! Hear!
Re: Re: Re: To collect or not to collect? That is the question… -- lopacki Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: rosetta Post Reply
03/03/2018, 17:01:36



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