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BUYING BEADS IN EGYPT
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Posted by: Timbuk-2 Post Reply
04/13/2017, 07:39:13

Can anybody tell-el-amarna me anything about the current bead-market/s in Egypt?

Where to go?
Cairo? Alexandria? Luxor? Antique-shops?

Is the export of ancient glassbeads legal?

Since "nobody" is visiting the country right now - due to the political situation - very cheap tickets are available (150-200 $/return). I would like to take advantage of current prices and make a short, 7-10 day visit to the BEAUTIFUL country.

Any information about beads and where to get them, is appreciated!



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Re: BUYING BEADS IN EGYPT
Re: BUYING BEADS IN EGYPT -- Timbuk-2 Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: floorkasp Post Reply
04/13/2017, 07:46:46

You may want to search the forum for some previous 'trip reports'.
If I recall correctly, both Paula and Rosanna have visited Egypt. (So did I, but before my bead collecting days)

From what I remember, neither of them came back with ancient or even antique beads, as it is indeed illegal. I suggest you do some research on that if you are serious about buying.

In Tucson last year, I bought some cheap ancient glass beads from an Egyptian dealer. Later, I found out he smuggled them out of Egypt by putting them in a resin inside small new Egyptian sculptures.

There was a lot I loved about Egypt, and I think Cairo was my highlight. Just wandering endlessly through the markets...... There are endless small antique shops from what I remember in both Luxor and Cairo. Lots of new 'antiques', lots that could be old, and get you in trouble when exporting,



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Floorescent
Re: Re: BUYING BEADS IN EGYPT -- floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Timbuk-2 Post Reply
04/13/2017, 08:01:02

Thanks, Floor!

I know that ancient beads are offered in Egypt, but I do not know where and under what conditions.

I found a single ancient piece myself (may post it later), aside of another single Venetian bicone, Egyptians seem to admire so much. That purchase was neither in an antique-shop nor from a bead-dealer - just a lucky find from a street vendor.

I will check old posts - thanks for the hint - but it needs an experienced bead-hunter to find the right sources. I am after certain AMARNA specimen. The recent discussion with photos on this beads gave me the inspiration to give it a try.

And I have to visit KITCHERNER's ISLAND again - a natural treasure of the special kind (seen most of the graves and the museum).

It was the Khalili-market, you spoke about...?



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NASSER
Re: Floorescent -- Timbuk-2 Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Timbuk-2 Post Reply
04/13/2017, 10:09:02

Apropos Khalili:
Have you (old guys and young girls) heard about the Nasser Khalili Collection and the many books made from it?

I should keep this short, otherwise I might fill pages and pages with fanatic enthusiasm. Not only about the TRUELY-TRUELY BREATHTAKING
BEAUTY (!!!) of Khalili's collections (plural) - consisting of a diverse range of mostly "ancient Islamic" pieces - but as well about the books that display this collections on paper - all of the epitome of GODLIKE BEAUTY!

This is no exaggaration! These are not the words of a lover and (small-scale) collector of Islamic art. Both, I repeat, the stunning pieces Mr. Khalili assembled and the FINE(ST) ART PUBLICATIONS he made from them have nothing to compare them to. I doubt there is any museum - including those of highest reputation - who possess collections of the Khalili magnificense.

Check Amazon.com for the some 20 volumes that are out already. Many of them are available in antiquariats for a somewhat cheaper-than-amazon price, where certain new and used copies reach prices over 100 $ and sometimes (way over) 1000 Euros. Unfortunately it is exactly the book on (Sassanian) glass that is exceptionally costly. The cheapest price I found was around 150$ (on German amazon.de 2500 Euro/2600 $, though).

I own the titles on enemal, Indian paintings and "Empire of the Sultans" - unfortunately I missed to buy the issue on glass, when it was cheaper. From what I have seen - I looked through the book a few years ago - I can only insist that any single invested Dollar for this book is worth it. As much as it is for any single of the ca. 20 publications on the Nasser Khalili Collection

Nobody interested in ancient glass should miss to aquire this title, leave alone all the others. All in true WORLD-CLASS standard!

Paper, binding, photos, text, design - all parameters are of DIVINE character and qulity.

I have NEVER came across of books in a higher quality!


PS
There are also 2-3 titles on old Japanese art, incl. pieces of the Meiji period. Something for Frederick, though I am nearly certain he owns the books already and can fullheartedly agree with my assessment of HIGHEST quality for specimen and books.

Link:
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_pg_5?fst=p90x%3A1&rh=n%3A283155%2Ck%3Anasser+khalili+collection&page=5&keywords=nasser+khalili+collection&ie=UTF8&qid=1492095906



Modified by Timbuk-2 at Thu, Apr 13, 2017, 17:56:27

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CHUBBY
Re: NASSER -- Timbuk-2 Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Timbuk-2 Post Reply
04/13/2017, 18:25:14

Checker-bead from Assuan.

Bought it for pennies as a completely black (!) round thing. Only later that night - some time in autumn of ~1998/9 - in the Hotel, I realized the other colors, when beginning to clean the piece. To light (and new life) came a rather lovely "Checker-Bead".

All my other efforts to find old beads during that trip - mostly undertaken for diving and grave-hunting - run nowhere!

I have no idea about the fun-level of an organized tour from one (of the many) point-of-interest to the next, or the pleasures of a Nile-cruise - possibly interesting too (especially the latter), but I did a 6 weeks exploration of Egypt by car and was VERY surprised that this beautiful and very interesting country had so much more to offer than pyramids, graves, museums and beaches!

It was one of the most fascinating trips in one of the most fascinating countries I have done so far. Rent a car and explore the land on your own, should you have the time to do so, is my recommandation!

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It is illegal to export anything over 100 years old without a license
Re: BUYING BEADS IN EGYPT -- Timbuk-2 Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
04/13/2017, 22:36:26

So, Venetian and other beads from the "trade bead" era of the early 20th c. may be found - although I have only bought them from Egypt via eBay. I found one small silver vintage pendant with dangles at one shop, but it was probably from Ethiopia.

There are many shops selling reproductions of old pieces, and the sellers try to give you the impression that they are "ancient" but they are clearly "nice souvenir quality" repros. They are all dirtied up, distressed, etc. which is sad, since many would look quite good if just sold as a nice fresh reproductions.

There are many hand-made items to be found, though - I'd recommend the beautiful wool rugs (can be shipped or stuffed into your luggage) and the alabaster sculptures, vases, etc. Gold and silver work is everywhere, too - but very expensive IMHO.

The beads, scarabs, etc that you will find are all inexpensive & new. The camel bone beads can be quite nice. I think a lot of the other "stuff" that you'll see is made from materials imported from China and India. Another nice souvenir is a cotton wall hanging, pillow case, or bag with hand-sewn applique work - which is mostly done by men.

I would avoid anyone who says they are selling ancient artifacts under the table. They may turn you in for a reward - you'll be searched at the airport on the way out and probably not suspect why. Then you'll be in a nice mess!

The main souks in Cairo and Luxor are of course filled with tourists, but without a guide you won't be able to find the places where the locals shop. I suggest you stay in Cairo for long enough to see the Giza pyramids, the brand new museum at Giza if it's open, the original Cairo museum, and the souk. If you are interested in the Old Kingdom, don't miss the Imhotep Museum and many excavations at Saqqara.

For New Kingdom, fly to Luxor for Valley of Kings, Luxor Temple and of course Karnak. If possible, also see Deir el Bahari. A longer side trip would be Abydos, which for me was the most important and inspiring site, with the fabulous temples of Seti I and Ramesses II.

The Amarna site in Middle Egypt is also fascinating but when I was there in 2008, a lot of special permissions were required. I don't know if many tours are allowed there at present. A long bus ride from Cairo.

I was in Alexandria for only one day, and badly jet-lagged, so the only thing of note that I enjoyed was a tour of the incredible and vast New Library of Alexandria.

Suggest you join a tour or make arrangements ahead of time. You can hire a driver and guide who will get you where you want to go. You would not want to drive yourself anyway - many drivers do not turn their lights on at night, and also do not obey lane markers on the highways. And be very careful when crossing wide city streets - best bet is to follow along with some locals who are crossing.

Learn a little Arabic first & Good luck!



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Without a license to drill
Re: It is illegal to export anything over 100 years old without a license -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Timbuk-2 Post Reply
04/14/2017, 14:01:16

Seems you did not read my previous post! I have been to Egypt. Six weeks. In a rented car! "Organized" is no option to see a country. To roll in a video-bus from one monument to the next with people I have nothing in common with, to all-you-can-eat egyptionized food in an air-conditioned tourist-temple and sleep in one of those 4-Star Hotel-Ghettos is not my idea of learning about "land and people".

Cruising by car on your own allows you to see all the hidden gems tour-operators do not care for - the Valley of Queens (actually everything in the Luxor area), the Red pyramid, the Knick pyramid, Siwa (Alexander), the Southern oasises Dakhla and Kharga, Abu Simbel, Kitchener's Island, Alexandria's library, al-Fustat, Khalili-market and the many smaller ones on other towns, the secret Red Sea diving spots, the Fayoum, the Nile Delta and last but not least the incredible nightlife of Cairo can only be explored on your own - not organized in a group!!

Four weeks is a decent time to get around - six weeks is close to perfect, if time allows.

The security situation, as I was told by those who recently returned, is rather stabil and widely exaggarated, especially in the US media (what to expect?). The artificial fear that was and still is spread has a "good side", though. Since tourism decreased dramatically the past years, prices followed likewise. Those interested in an organized tour might pay ~50% less than they had to during the heyday of Egyptian tourism.

A one-week trip on a Felluke (incl. "boarding" and lodging) on the Nilke must be an extraordinairy side-step from rolling on four wheels. Same for a trip over Giza in a balloon - both high on my list!

Leave alone the dusty and run-down museum in Cairo (some 15+ years ago), leave alone the impressive Alexandria library and not to mention the colorful graves, Abu Simbel, Giza and Siwa - my personal highlight was the natural beauty of KITCHERNER'S ISLAND, something not be missed on anybody's schedule. Since we left the last ferry back to Assuan that evening, we were stranded and completely alone for 12 hours in one of the world's smallest (ca. 700x200 meters), but most diverse, impressive and beautiful natural habitats. A true little "adventure" of the third magical kind (without going into further details)!

Beads and pieces...?
Yes, exactly as you say: A lot of tourist crap. But also some exellent handicraft - the wooden-inlay boxes, for example. Not the cheap version for 10-15 bucks, though!

The one advantage of an organized tour - the only one I can see, at least - might be the better chance of taking home (alive) some of the ancient beads, that fall under the embargo.

We true collectors won't even consider the breech of such Islamic laws of Egypt. Would still be nice to get some beads in exchange for the democracy "we" brought them. It's an unjust world!

PS
I promise, Rosanna: I will be very careful, will never "Walk on the Wild Side" of street of Cairo. Especially not at night!

Shukraan - for your tips and advice!

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Hard to to know what you have seen or not seen
Re: Without a license to drill -- Timbuk-2 Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
04/14/2017, 17:24:26

In my case, the tour was a very small group and we had permissions to see things that the large tours never see. For example, we spent several hours inside the Great Pyramid, by ourselves, after the entire Giza Plateau was closed. We spent several hours inside the enclosure of the Sphinx, while everyone else could only view it from the platforms above the enclosure. We were able to view the inside of several tombs in Amarna that had stunning paintings of Ahkenaten and Nefertiti.
We also visited a working farm near Saqqara and had dinner at a family home in Luxor. At one stop I was able to hold a lion cub in my lap! Yes he was quite tame (for the time being anyway).

So all this costs money - and I'm sure there are things we could never do unless on our own, but it's difficult to know what an individual is looking for in their travel experiences.

Anyone who wishes to go to Egypt - I highly recommend the tour group that I went with twice: All One World Egypt Tours. However, due to the changes over there, it seems they are no longer running the same itineraries as before, which is very sad. Many of the special things I saw appear to be unavailable at present, but you could contact them for advice.

In this picture, I believe Anubis and Horus are asking Ramesses where he got the excellent beads he is wearing.

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Modified by Rosanna at Fri, Apr 14, 2017, 19:28:16

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Seen and not seen
Re: Hard to to know what you have seen or not seen -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Timbuk-2 Post Reply
04/14/2017, 20:44:41

Seems you enjoyed your trip, Rosanna!

That is what counts - to have a choice. To be able to decide between an organized tour or an individual trip according to one's your own schedule and pace.

As long as one gets what s/he had expected and paid for, it does not matter much which one of the two options one chooses.

Since I was sent to a summer-camp on BORKUM as a 10-year old - together with a bunch of other kids from the DEUTSCHE BANK, my father was working for - I never travelled in a group or with folks I did not know and like!

I visited the (selfmade!) website of the tour-operator you travelled with to Egypt, Rosanna. "Small groups" consist of 16 people. The price for a single person's 7-day trip cost the unbelievable amount of 5000 Dollars (free camel ride at Giza and drinking water).

I can only guess, but I believe we haven't paid more than half of this amount. For two, incl. tickets for a 6-weeks trip. Cheap Hotels along the way - any night another one - and food "ala locals", cheap and good, most of the time.

The only costly parts have been the entrance tickets to the graves and museums early one, before we figured a small Bakschisch would open the doors as well (15-30$ for a single grave is a hefty price - and there are many) and a 35-day car rental at ca. 900$. Gasoline was as cheap as the cheap guesthouses for local travellers along the way. Not sure you had liked to stay without AC, room-service, TV, but the shower in the hallway (more often than not). - were without any (totally unnecessary) luxury. Still - any single one of them worth a memory, thanks to their discreet plebeian charme and the friendly owners. All of it Egyptian to the bone! For no price worth an exchange to a 4-5 star. Possibly a style not designed for you. Don't get me wrong - nothing bad about (real) luxury, depending on time and place. A decadent ride on the Nile "Agathe- Christie-style" - private luxury cabin, butler, a bottle of Roederer under Egyptian stars and other enjoyments in the company of an interesting companion is nothing I would reject. Camel-ride and lion-petting does not fall into the same category.

Without public inside the pyramids and the Sphinx is certainly something to envy. I did not even know one could visit the inside of the "big lion" - certainly a highlight, I guess. Were you allowed photos?

Have you been to Abu Simbel?


PS
Excuse the "mean spirited" pics - just kidding you!

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Modified by Timbuk-2 at Sat, Apr 15, 2017, 05:58:03

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