Post Message Search Overview RegisterLoginAdmin
Faux Amber and Faux - Faux Amber
Post Reply Edit View All Forum
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
07/25/2015, 17:51:41

Lately I've been studying phenolic resin aka Bakelite beads, and along the way I've run into beads that are clearly neither amber nor Bakelite, along with some beads advertised as Bakelite that turned out not to be.

Here are some of my findings.

First set of pics are what appear to be hand-made beads that are trying (not too successfully) to look like old amber. They are similar to the very large faux amber beads discussed a week before BCN went down. I bought these so I could find out what they are made of - and they are polystyrene. Probably made from old cassette boxes like the ones shown in Sarah's video. I don't think they would fool anyone, but note the ground-down "flash" around the holes. This is a dead giveaway that the holes were made by pushing a hot skewer through. Then the flash was ground off. In other words, plastic!

PSFauxAMber1.jpg (25.7 KB)  PSFauxAmber2.jpg (31.4 KB)  


Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
"Yellow or Lemon Amber" = High Impact Polystyrene
Re: Faux Amber and Faux - Faux Amber -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
07/25/2015, 18:04:42

Also recently obtained some wheel-shaped and cross-drilled diamond beads of a light yellow plastic that is identified as Bakelite on several sites. The wheel shaped beads are identical in shape to many Bakelite beads and appear on the web in several places as large strands, sometime graduated. One site called them "Lemon Amber". Maybe they've been around for some time but I just noticed them and it seems they are popping up now. Since the plastic is not very abrasion resistant, the beads have a worn & pitted surface. And the holes in the diamond-shaped beads have elongated, very much like antique natural amber.

This is somewhat of a repeat since I posted this before - but I sent one of the diamond-shaped beads to a plastics test lab and they identified it as High Impact Polystyrene or HIPS. The high impact part is due to the addition of a rubbery polymer to increase the impact strength. That also makes the polymer opaque.

These beads may date to the 1960's. That would explain the wear and patina.

HIPSDiamonds.jpg (28.9 KB)  PolystyreneBeadsIsrael.jpg (23.8 KB)  


Modified by Rosanna at Sat, Jul 25, 2015, 19:34:47

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Yellow amber cut in Idar-Oberstein
Re: "Yellow or Lemon Amber" = High Impact Polystyrene -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: floorkasp Post Reply
07/26/2015, 02:13:12

Here is a strand of yellow amber I came across in Idar-Oberstein. Like Fred's picture: for comparison.

260715amber.jpg (36.4 KB)  


Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Thanks Floor!
Re: Yellow amber cut in Idar-Oberstein -- floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
07/30/2015, 19:16:30



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Genuine amber in comparable shapes and colors for visual comparison.
Re: Faux Amber and Faux - Faux Amber -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
07/25/2015, 18:07:52

IMG_1004.jpg (77.7 KB)  


Modified by Frederick II at Sat, Jul 25, 2015, 18:52:51

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Thanks, Fred!
Re: Genuine amber in comparable shapes and colors for visual comparison. -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
07/25/2015, 23:02:48



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Faux Bakelite
Re: Faux Amber and Faux - Faux Amber -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
07/25/2015, 18:15:07

Several groups of beads are shown here - all are polystyrene - and some were sold as Bakelite. Some really do a good job of looking like old Bakelite.

The hot needle test is a quick way to test for polystyrene. Heat the needle an press the end lightly into the inside surface of the hole. If the needle sinks in, you can be sure it's not Bakelite. If you need to learn what polystyrene smells like - get a plastic container with a PS - 6 recycle mark and hot needle it. Be careful and don't inhale a lot - and you won't have to.

Some other amber imitations are apparently made from a variety of materials like polyester, epoxy, nylons, and PVC (polyvinyl chloride) resins. I've not encountered them as I'm focusing for the time being on beads trade into Africa. However it's a fascinating topic!

FauxBakelite.jpg (81.8 KB)  FauxBakelite2.jpg (24.2 KB)  


Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Faux Bakelite
Re: Faux Bakelite -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: karavanserai Post Reply
07/26/2015, 02:55:56

Thank you Rosanna, this gets really interesting. Is Bakelite still produced these days, or can we assume that presently made amber imitations will in se be anything but Bakelite?

This strand you posted are quite nice, and seem to have some patina. They look like the 'yemen' beads that are being sold.
Thanks again for sharing your findings.

martine

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Phenolic resin still in production
Re: Re: Faux Bakelite -- karavanserai Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
07/26/2015, 08:28:11

Phenolic resins are huge industrial materials today, but I don't know if any are being made into new beads. The Raschig company for example (see link) has production in Thailand for "original" formulas for Catalin and Faturan phenolic resin stock. The specific trade name Bakelite is now obsolete.

If I had to guess, I can imagine that somewhere where labor is cheap (China, India, etc.) there are new beads being made from new phenolic resin stock. I see a lot of prayer bead strands being sold as Bakelite, Catalin, Saturn, etc. and wonder if they are new or old, or maybe not even phenolic resin.

There are also sellers of old blocks of phenolic resin, dug up from industrial waste sites. Possibly these are being used for beads.

One thing mentioned by Floor in her research on agate beads previously made in Idar-Oberstein and now being made in Brazil - the market for beads going into Africa is declining, maybe rapidly. So, I suspect that any new work with phenolic resin would not find many buyers if the purpose was to reproduce old beads traded into Africa. Rather, I think the new work would reproduce items that are currently in demand - prayer beads, and also vintage Bakelite items like bangle bracelets. From what little I have read about the vintage Bakelite market - it is a hot area for collectors and reproductions are a big issue. Most of those are coming out of China.

See my reply below concerning other amber imitations.


Related link: http://www.raschig.net/p/home-page.html

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
"Saturn" in this post is supposed to be "Faturan" - darn that spell-checker!!
Re: Phenolic resin still in production -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
07/30/2015, 19:18:59



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Polyester?
Re: Faux Bakelite -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
07/26/2015, 08:30:57

I showed the short strand of beads to a seller of old Bakelite and she thinks they are polyester. Polyester is listed as one of the many plastics used to imitate amber on several web sites. I am going to have one of them tested at the plastics test laboratory I used to identify the HIPS bead.

The beads smell like polystyrene when hot-needled, but the info about amber imitations says that polyester will have the same odor as polystyrene when burned. That is interesting to me - possibly these plastics are mixes or co-polymers.

Will let you know the outcome of further tests!



Modified by Rosanna at Sun, Jul 26, 2015, 08:52:17

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Yellow amber, collection Malbork Castle Poland
Re: Faux Amber and Faux - Faux Amber -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Anansi Post Reply
07/26/2015, 03:03:15

Some pictures of yellow amber from the Amber collection Malbork Castle Poland. This collection consists of over 700 specimens of natural amber. I was very impressed during our visit last year and took a lot of pictures there. So if you ever have the chance to visit Poland do'nt forget this museum. Also the Amber Museum in Gdansk is worth visiting.
Interesting book: "Amber - views and opinions" edited by Barbara Kosmoska-Ceranowicz and Wieslaw Gierlowski, ISBN83912894-1-9 (English copy). Also interesting: a small booklet called "Guide to Amber imitations" from Gabriela Gierlowska (ISBN 83-917704-3-5)

Nel

Amber_collection_Malbork_Castle_Poland.jpg (89.9 KB)  Picture_2_amber_collection_Malbork_Castle_Poland.jpg (95.5 KB)  


Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
it's very interesting, thanks for this information. Amber is so complex!
Re: Yellow amber, collection Malbork Castle Poland -- Anansi Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: kika Post Reply
07/26/2015, 03:39:51

Thanks, I want to read these books. There are here faux amber, I think one is bakelite, and the other a kind of resin, because the sense of touch is different and particular. All these beads were bought on the african markets, all the beads are very big!

1_DSC05567.jpg (74.1 KB)  1_DSC05555.jpg (62.1 KB)  
kika

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Light yellow ones - pretty sure are not Bakelite
Re: it's very interesting, thanks for this information. Amber is so complex! -- kika Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
07/26/2015, 08:58:00

The darker ones may be Bakelite - have you tried the hot needle test? And, how big are they? The biggest Bakelite bead I have seen is 52 mm (and I had to buy it!). I would be interested to find any that are even larger.

RF52mmPhenolic20150726.jpg (67.2 KB)  


Modified by Rosanna at Sun, Jul 26, 2015, 08:58:39

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Light yellow ones - pretty sure are not Bakelite
Re: Light yellow ones - pretty sure are not Bakelite -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: kika Post Reply
07/26/2015, 14:40:10

the three darker ones are 68 mm diameter and 34 and 40mm thickness, I think too it's bakelite. The light ones seem to be a resin, the texture is very different and are 57mm length, 53mm wide and 23mm thick. I tried the hot needle test: on the resin, the needle puts out the resin, but it's hard to smell something. There is a picture of another beads which seem to be bakelite too: please, look at the big bead left after the two smaller and the bead right after the small one, they are lighter than the darker ones and thicker too: 45 and 51mm, and 57mm diameter. There are two beads like this, one on left, one one right.
The last pic shows a necklace of faux amber which seems colored horn.

1_DSC05554.jpg (80.4 KB)  DSC05558.jpg (85.2 KB)  
kika

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
another colored horn beads: faux amber
Re: Re: Light yellow ones - pretty sure are not Bakelite -- kika Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: kika Post Reply
07/26/2015, 14:41:41

1_DSC05560.jpg (87.5 KB)  
kika

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Maybe Bakelite
Re: Re: Light yellow ones - pretty sure are not Bakelite -- kika Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
07/26/2015, 21:35:36

Kika,
I don't know from the pictures - they may be Bakelite. They would be the largest Bakelite beads I've seen. If you want to send one to me for testing, I can look at it, then send it back to you.

Where are you located?



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Maybe Bakelite
Re: Maybe Bakelite -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: kika Post Reply
07/27/2015, 00:30:25

Hello Rosanna, Thanks for your explanations. Yes, I think it's bakelite. I'm in France. I can try to send you the beads. What is your address, please? but do you think too that, what I think "horn beads", are also bakélite? I bought all these beads on african markets: Maroua, Yaoundé in Cameroun until 2007 and Bouaké, Ivory Coast, many years ago.

kika

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Horn beads - not Bakelite
Re: Re: Maybe Bakelite -- kika Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
07/30/2015, 19:12:39

Hi Kika,
I don't think the horn beads are Bakelite.

I sent you an email and we can discuss testing your other beads.

It's all very interesting!

Rosanna



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Horn beads - not Bakelite
Re: Horn beads - not Bakelite -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: kika Post Reply
07/31/2015, 00:23:10

Hi! Rosanna,
Yes, sure, I never think that horn-beads are bakelite!!! I just said it's another kind of amber's imitation!

kika

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Amber imitations
Re: Yellow amber, collection Malbork Castle Poland -- Anansi Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
07/26/2015, 08:49:36

Thanks Nel! The Gierlowska booklet is informative and available on line for a modest price. I can't find the link to the order form at the moment - I'll post it when I find it. Some other sites have a lot of the same information (see link).

From what I have seen so far, most amber imitations try to mimic "jewelry grade" amber articles. I have actually been in touch with Dr. Gierlowska (Google translate to the rescue!) and she says most of the new, really fine imitations are made of epoxy resin now.


Related link: http://www.amber.com.pl/en/resources/raw-amber/item/448-what-we-know-about-amber-imitations

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Link to order the Guide to Amber Imitations by Gabriela Gierlowska
Re: Amber imitations -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
07/26/2015, 09:04:40

Found it!

With shipping to the US it was $10.45.


Related link: http://www.natural-baltic-amber.com/baltic-amber/index.php?route=product/category&path=66
Modified by Rosanna at Sun, Jul 26, 2015, 09:05:49

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Your research on this genre........
Re: Faux Amber and Faux - Faux Amber -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Joyce Post Reply
07/28/2015, 22:27:52

Wonderful!
It is your custom niche, with your background in r&d. It is fun and interesting to hear about your confirmations and discoveries. Sounds like quite an adventure, and will be a hard story to finish - It may seem like there will forever be another discovery around the corner. Thanks for sharing with us, Rosanna.



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Except for the holes...
Re: Faux Amber and Faux - Faux Amber -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Luann Udell Post Reply
07/29/2015, 20:37:20

I really like these, as far as the faux and the faux faux, go. Were these priced as amber?

Luann Udell artist & writer Ancient stories retold in modern artifacts LuannUdell.com

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
No, but the faux-Bakelite was priced as Bakelite
Re: Except for the holes... -- Luann Udell Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
07/30/2015, 09:52:20

Old Bakelite (phenolic) beads are often very high- priced, as if the seller thinks they are almost in the price range of natural amber. But I've found quite a few for modest or low prices, too. It's hard to know what people think they are selling when they use the terms "copal amber", "African amber", etc. The honest merchants say they don't know what the material is.

Natural antique amber is of course sky-high right now.

And, as we saw from the recent example, some of the hand-made polystyrene beads can sell very high. It's really a total mis-mash with regards to realized prices on eBay.



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Thank you for this thread. Most interesting!
Re: Faux Amber and Faux - Faux Amber -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: jrj Post Reply
07/30/2015, 11:52:35



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users


Forum     Back