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Proposing a thread on diverse religious beads...
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Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
02/19/2017, 13:12:28



Modified by Frederick II at Sun, Feb 19, 2017, 13:21:34

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Religion in glass
Re: Proposing a thread on diverse religious beads... -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Timbuk-2 Post Reply
02/19/2017, 16:05:34

Again..., but this time with red velvet, to remain in the right religious context!

More religiousness than this beads represents, is unthinkable!

PS
...not purple?

DSC_0070.JPG (188.6 KB)  


Modified by Timbuk-2 at Sun, Feb 19, 2017, 16:25:50

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Old & new prayer strands
Re: Proposing a thread on diverse religious beads... -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
02/19/2017, 16:53:05

First photo is a rosary of cedar wood (I believe) beads from around 1900. Probably made for pilgrims to Rome, since the Stanhope viewer (check out Wikipedia for the details on Stanhope's invention) has an image of Leo XIII, who was the Pope from 1878 - 1903. The smaller beads are 7 - 7.5 mm diameter. I bought these beads from a poor picture on-line, with the expectation they were Bakelite beads as advertised. Since the rosary was not that expensive I kept it despite the mis-rep. Of course if I had known there was an image of Leo XIII I would have also known the beads could not have been Bakelite or other PF since the earliest production of PF was 1910.

Second photo is a brand new (October 2016) Islamic prayer strand, made of PF (phenolic resin) beads. The PF stock was made in Thailand, the beads were made in Egypt, and the seller was in India. Beads are about 13 mm diameter. There are many prayer strands made from new PF for sale on eBay - most are listed as Bakelite beads. Some are listed as antique. Floor found a shop in Istanbul that was making PF beads from vintage stock, so possibly new prayer strands from old stock are represented as well. Caveat emptor!

CedarRosaryLeoXIII.jpg (65.4 KB)  1_PFPrayerStrand.jpg (49.9 KB)  


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Old & new prayer strands
Re: Old & new prayer strands -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Timbuk-2 Post Reply
02/19/2017, 17:42:33

Really-really-really stunning!

Last night I saw (FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER) the cross from the left picture and today - believe it or not - I saw the VERY SAME prayer strand (though in a lighter brown) on a fleamarket, I visited.

The price for the single cross stood at 40 Dollars (on an auction side), while the prayer strand - literally a one-to-one copy of yours, except for a slightly lighter color, was offered at 12 Euro (= ca. Dollar).

I wanted to buy it (for 8 E) and the dealer agreed, but since I had no coins, I finally forgot!

While the single cross (photo later) for 40 Dollar had a simelar metal ring in the center too, the rosary I found today showed no metal - otherwise the VERY SAME piece. Actually all three pieces were 100% same. Yours, the single cross for 40$ and the rosary I saw today on a fleamarket.

Is that possible...???

Have never seen such a piece in my life - and now I saw three within 24 hours? STUNNING!!!

Will post a photo of the single cross in a minute!

PS
The auction house insisted the cross was of Russian origin!



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Russian...?
Re: Old & new prayer strands -- Timbuk-2 Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Timbuk-2 Post Reply
02/19/2017, 17:47:20

.

58a1cf88940e2.JPG (150.6 KB)  


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Common design
Re: Russian...? -- Timbuk-2 Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
02/19/2017, 22:18:08

If you search for "Stanhope cross" on eBay, you will see maybe 10 crosses that look just like this design, some wood, some bone, some other materials (maybe plastic for more recent ones).

So my conclusion is that this was an item made by the thousands, and maybe for decades in the late 1800s and early 1900s. The main company making Stanhope viewers was based in France, and a number of the eBay items have religious images, some obviously from France. There is more info on various web sites - one is the attached link. The French company making the viewers was in operation from 1859 - 1972!

Russians certainly could have made crosses and incorporated the viewers, but most of the eBay crosses indicated the images were from non-Russian sites or saints. The image in the viewer of any particular cross would be a clue of course to the origin. If you have a chance to see one again, see if you can make out the image. Some of the microphotographs have deteriorated, and whatever you do, DON'T try to clean the viewer with anything other than a very soft cloth or brush. Any kind of cleaner or solvent may completely ruin the image, which could be 150 years old.

A little more web searching will get you a lot more info, I'm sure!


Related link: http://www.stanhopes.info

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Common design - unusual piece
Re: Common design -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Timbuk-2 Post Reply
02/20/2017, 10:53:28

Interesting-interesting!

I had never heard about Stanhope or a Stanhope cross - possibly because of my lack of Christian education. I did not even peep into the hole (without metal), when I saw the (SAME THAN YOURS!!) rosary with the crosss yesterday.

The other one I sent ays photo yesterday will be mine soon. I won the auction, I spoke about and paid most likely foolish 46 Euro for the piece, thinking it must have been Mauritanian (as we know, Mauritanians like all kinds of crosses too).

I bought it as a Mauritanian piece, I have to admit. The piece will come from Lituania! The workmanship to Boutilimit-work (most likely)is so close (the "eyes" and the cuts at the sides, leave alone the cross-shape and the material) that I had no other indications to this towards the West-Saharan desert. WRONG, as I now know and though I have overpaid the piece, I am happy to own it, but will make sure the micro-photography is intact, before payment!

This is my hypothesis!
It is a fact that Christian missionairies roamed Mauritania. It could be assumed that one such cross (possibly many) were given to local Muslims, who were on the edge to be converted (though hard to believe that could happen at all). Or simply as a gift to locals. The workmanship of the STANHOPE CROSS might have given them the idea to do their own designs - designs that look quite simelar, if we do not take the actual Stanhope shape into account.

A hypothesis, of course, but not one without merit, I think. As long as we do not have a better one...?



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religious beads...
Re: Proposing a thread on diverse religious beads... -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: stefany Post Reply
02/23/2017, 13:33:33

this is actually very small- made of rattan!

reduced6rattan+_closeup.JPG (195.3 KB)  


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Re: religious beads...
Re: religious beads... -- stefany Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: stefany Post Reply
02/23/2017, 13:41:15

circle/dot carved bone- (no stanhope)

reduced:rosary_copy.jpg (171.2 KB)  


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Re: Re: religious beads...
Re: Re: religious beads... -- stefany Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: stefany Post Reply
02/23/2017, 13:53:52

from my book...

%finerosaries.JPG (188.3 KB)  


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Re: Re: Re: religious beads...shown in my book-
Re: Re: Re: religious beads... -- stefany Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: stefany Post Reply
02/23/2017, 14:05:04

all these are original-the 2 lovely antique spanish rosaries with filigree crucifixes and other components, 1 with mother of pearl and one with jet beads furthest right were acquired from our very own Nisheda- others are straw, seeds, beadwork, glass, and the second antique one from the left is constructed of small carved jet beads, some with holes that cross, linking gold medallion elements - it may also be spanish -

if i didn't have such a job getting these images down in size i could show many more...



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carved janiform bead
Re: Re: Re: Re: religious beads...shown in my book- -- stefany Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: stefany Post Reply
02/24/2017, 01:13:30

this one has a carved bone janiform main bead with christs face on one side and a skull on the other-a "memento mori"
in my book the image is too small to see the details...
sorry this image is also a bit blurred!

rosary-copy.jpg (161.6 KB)  


Modified by stefany at Fri, Feb 24, 2017, 01:15:44

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big tassels-real antique black coral, antique african wire-inlaid...
Re: carved janiform bead -- stefany Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: stefany Post Reply
02/24/2017, 01:24:58

and well-loved...

bigtassels.jpg (76.3 KB)  


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Big tassels
Re: big tassels-real antique black coral, antique african wire-inlaid... -- stefany Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Timbuk-2 Post Reply
02/24/2017, 08:34:37

The piece in the middle is most definitely of Mauritanian origin! Still - a monochrome read tassel is extremely rare. See if for the first time here! The choice of the color red here is DEFINITELY not a random one...! Neither is the tassel itself! Interesting piece. Would like to see a better photo of tassel and beads.



Modified by Timbuk-2 at Fri, Feb 24, 2017, 08:55:06

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A rattan chain for your rattan cross!
Re: religious beads... -- stefany Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lindabd Post Reply
02/25/2017, 05:09:34

Also diminutive.

IMG_9459.JPG (154.5 KB)  IMG_9460.JPG (137.4 KB)  


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yours is lovely too
Re: A rattan chain for your rattan cross! -- lindabd Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: stefany Post Reply
02/25/2017, 12:08:57

although yours is lovely, mine is not perfect but it does have its own chain-
originally constructed as a rosary-
i assume from the Phillippines?

rattanmacramerosary_copy.jpg (107.3 KB)  


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XVII c. European
Re: Proposing a thread on diverse religious beads... -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: nishedha Post Reply
02/24/2017, 02:09:37

1_ac001-.jpg (71.0 KB)  ac001det2.jpg (57.6 KB)  


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guru bead from a Tibetan mala
Re: XVII c. European -- nishedha Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: nishedha Post Reply
02/24/2017, 02:15:47

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Modified by nishedha at Fri, Feb 24, 2017, 02:16:10

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also Tibetan
Re: guru bead from a Tibetan mala -- nishedha Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: nishedha Post Reply
02/24/2017, 02:17:30

and very large: made of human thigh bone.

sk004a.jpg (61.1 KB)  


Modified by nishedha at Fri, Feb 24, 2017, 02:46:14

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one of my favourite hobbies is making malas
Re: also Tibetan -- nishedha Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: nishedha Post Reply
02/24/2017, 02:30:12

This one is made of antique Chinese (?) seed beads-- I do not know from which tree -- with black coral counters and guru bead, and silver.

ines_€750.JPG (58.3 KB)  


Modified by nishedha at Fri, Feb 24, 2017, 02:32:47

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my best mala, alas! gone long ago...
Re: one of my favourite hobbies is making malas -- nishedha Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: nishedha Post Reply
02/24/2017, 02:39:24

Rosewood rondelle beads (Chinese) with a pendant made out of an antique Mongolian wood printing block featuring Siddharta Gautama Buddha. The counters are of black coral, and silver is also there. The whole is strung on 8 cotton cords, symbolysing the Eightfold Noble Path.

2_mala.jpg (73.4 KB)  


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This one was also nice!
Re: my best mala, alas! gone long ago... -- nishedha Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: nishedha Post Reply
02/24/2017, 02:43:05

Open worked bone beads from an old Chinese court mala, that I got from our late Silva Neilands, with antique Chinese amber beads.Strung on natural silk.
Thus beads destined to politics, later tuned in to higher matters-- like me.

1_mala2.jpg (115.3 KB)  


Modified by nishedha at Fri, Feb 24, 2017, 02:49:39

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last but not least
Re: This one was also nice! -- nishedha Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: nishedha Post Reply
02/24/2017, 03:07:27

This Ethiopian silver cross: arguably not a bead, but a pendant. Still, so special I cannot resist the temptation to post it.
Ex Institut voor Kulturele Antropologie van de Katholieke Universiteit -- Numegen.



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Not least
Re: last but not least -- nishedha Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Timbuk-2 Post Reply
02/24/2017, 08:23:53

Lovely pieces, Nishedha!

I wonder what the fascination with death is, in the Himalayas.

Why often or always this "trinity" in malas. Is there an explanation?
The central pendant, than this two smaller "chains" hanging down left and right! Must have some reason.

Though I visited the area a few times, I have basically no knowledge on the iconography of their ornaments. Do not even know the various names of DZI beads - unfortunately (and despite the literature, I own). I love basically all they do, but was more busy with Mauritania, I guess.
Should definitely fill that gap soon!



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Late XVIII c. German memento mori bead
Re: XVII c. European -- nishedha Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
02/24/2017, 03:03:38

In the seventeenth or eighteenth century this may have been a preacher's bead. But today this is a "Boy's Bead." -Isn't it? Or, should I ask: "Would a woman want to wear this?"

Originally it was intended for a monk's rosary -aspiring to humility- to remind a monk of his own mortality.

Memento_Mori.jpg (60.4 KB)  


Modified by Frederick II at Fri, Feb 24, 2017, 04:09:07

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Did you notice his haircut?
Re: Late XVIII c. German memento mori bead -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
02/24/2017, 03:37:25

In my bead, I see worms crawling out of his hairline. Do you?
Would you be willing to adapt a memento mori bead into a necklace and wear it?

Aetolian_Tonsure_Haircut.jpg (26.3 KB)  


Modified by Frederick II at Fri, Feb 24, 2017, 04:59:28

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Rattan
Re: Did you notice his haircut? -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Timbuk-2 Post Reply
02/24/2017, 08:17:04

Very lovely, Stephany! A beautiful piece. How small is it?

Mauritania uses (used, I should say) a very simelar technique and style for jewelry - necklaces and beads mostly!

Always loved this wonderful handicraft! Such a pity "plastic" put an end to most of it.

PS
Reminds me of a household-item from the past. To clean carpets - doens't it?

PPS
Seems you have a nice collection of "religious" ornaments.



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a genuine Nath Sadhu necklace from India
Re: Proposing a thread on diverse religious beads... -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: nishedha Post Reply
02/28/2017, 01:12:56

This is a "Gorakhnathi" necklace; the small pendant ending it -- which is perforated thorought --is not a mere adornment, but is supposed to be ritually used as a whistle morning and evening,to invoke the wearer's Guru.
They follow always a similar configuration, although the materials used are of course different. The elements on this particular one are: glass ring, red glass bead, rudraksha, brass whistle.

139_1.jpg (29.7 KB)  


Modified by nishedha at Tue, Feb 28, 2017, 07:54:06

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I see beauty in it's simplicity and humility. Good basic design too.
Re: a genuine Nath Sadhu necklace from India -- nishedha Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
02/28/2017, 05:03:20



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Sampat-nath-ji (aka Bom Shankar Baba) wearing his.
Re: a genuine Nath Sadhu necklace from India -- nishedha Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: nishedha Post Reply
02/28/2017, 08:00:03

The late Sampat-nath Baba is seen here wearing his Gorakhnathi necklace around the early 1970s. I remember him using his ritual whistle twice daily.
He was a close friend, and the man who really opened the Indian arcane to me.

1_BOM.jpg (66.2 KB)  


Modified by nishedha at Tue, Feb 28, 2017, 08:02:32

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Nishedha, If you feel like it, please say a little more about each bead and it's meaning.
Re: a genuine Nath Sadhu necklace from India -- nishedha Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
02/28/2017, 10:56:23



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My additions
Re: Proposing a thread on diverse religious beads... -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: floorkasp Post Reply
02/28/2017, 09:49:19

A sample card of Czech glass Islamic prayer beads

A set of prayer/worry beads made by me.

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