Posted by: Luann Udell  Post Reply
05/17/2015, 17:06:56
Luann Udell
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Ancient stories retold in modern artifacts
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Modified by Luann Udell at Sun, May 17, 2015, 21:51:30
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Posted by: Stefany Post Reply
05/18/2015, 03:24:24
chinese are not so often graduated in size, and they may have used a different knot-
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Posted by: floorkasp Post Reply
05/18/2015, 09:03:35
They do not look like Hubbell beads to me. Hubbell beads have a different way of mimicking turquoise, generally done with frit (crushed glass) on a white base.
I do not know too much about Rousselet beads, but that could be a possibility. Might be good to get a better idea of the holes. The Czechs use mandrels with clay to remove the beads, while I believe Rousselet used (like the Venetians) copper based mandrels that were dissolved in acid to get the bead. There are some marks on the holes that also make me wonder if you are completely sure they are glass.
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Posted by: Mel H Post Reply
05/18/2015, 16:20:36
Thanks so much for taking the time to answer, Floor! I agree they don't look like Hubbell to me, either. I don't see any evidence of the powdery white stuff that is in a lot of Czech bead holes. There again, I don't see much evidence of them being worked on a mandrel either?! Good point about being certain of glass, I am not. They have a somewhat porous surface, very few and very fine pores in the blue areas but larger pores, even small pits, in the brown areas. Also, where the brown is concentrated around the bead holes there is roughness like stone. Could these be stone? Where were the visual clues leading you? Attaching two more photos, trying to show the brown area roughness at the bead hole but hard to capture. Thanks again Floor, and Stefany, too!
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Posted by: Floorkasp Post Reply
05/18/2015, 18:06:38
Looking at your close up pics make me indeed think they are not glass. My clued are the white edges around the hole. They are not consistent with glass and appear to be the result of drilling. Also, the pattern looks like it was not lampworked.
Could it be 'block turquoise'? It is generally a mix of resin, dyes, something to form the matrix and other chemicals. It can feel quite stone-like, but there is no actual turquoise in there. It is made in blocks from which beads and other things are cut. There is also reconstituted turquoise which does use (some) actual turquoise mixed with resins.
I have not seen any graduated bead sets made from this material before, block or reconstituted. But it certainly would be possible.
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Posted by: Mel H Post Reply
05/18/2015, 19:00:12
okay, trying the photos again, I think these are better
I know exactly what you mean Floor, but I don't think they're block turquoise, to me block turquoise feels almost waxy and is comparatively light weight versus these beads, and they're colder to the touch than resin. It's so hard to get across in photos, wish you could feel them! I'm almost certain they're either glass or a heavy porcelain with a really deep and intricate glaze. If you look around the holes you'll see some damage, the edges are crystalline like glass. The pattern of the brown areas is very wispy, like the center of some Venetian murine, I think they've been called bifurcated murine or something like that. Could they be a Venetian attempt at faux turquoise? they may just end up being (dun dun duuuuuh) Mystery Beads! :)
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Posted by: Joyce Post Reply
05/23/2015, 07:49:57
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Posted by: KFM Post Reply
05/19/2015, 04:44:57
Having made glass beads for the past 25 years, these look like glass to me. Silver and copper leaf both cause color reactions with certain colors of glass. If I were trying to replicate these beads, I would start with an offwhite or white core, roll it in copper leaf , then add opaque turquoise glass in different spots. The dark crackly area is where the copper covered off-white glass emerges between the areas of turquoise. The reddish color could be where the copper reduces on the surface and becomes red copper oxide. This can be accomplished by reducing the oxygen in the flame while making the bead. The otherwise dark appearance of the copper leaf on the off-white is the normal color of copper leaf when it has been heated into a glass surface without reduction. Reduction to copper can be spotty. So that's my take on it - if I were near my torch, I'd try to make one for you!
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Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
05/19/2015, 06:14:50
I really appreciate your comments & thanks for taking the time to share - this is this type of information I would never be able to find anywhere else, and I'm sure many people would agree with me!
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Posted by: KFM Post Reply
05/19/2015, 06:44:14
My pleasure, Rosanna - thank you!
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Posted by: Mel H Post Reply
05/19/2015, 12:23:51
Wow, amazing! I think you totally hit the nail on the head with that, thank you so much for your input! I can imagine watching you put one together, what fun that would be!
I'm going to look at these beads in a whole new light now, they are actually pretty labor intensive from the sounds of it. I think they're going to stay with me for a while.
You all are wonderful, thank you all for your input in helping me figure these out, I definitely couldn't have done it without you! -Melissa
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Posted by: KFM Post Reply
05/19/2015, 12:55:27
Delighted to contribute here, Melissa! Each of us has a different slant on beads - I wouldn't know where to begin with stone. I began collecting Venetian beads in the late 80's and joined the DC Bead Society. I saw the tail end of a bead making demo at the 2nd International Bead Conference in DC in 1990 and was mesmerized. I still feel so lucky that my obsession became my vocation!
Cheers!
Kate
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Posted by: Mel H Post Reply
05/19/2015, 13:15:00
all the disparate knowledge makes this a real treasure trove of information...we are very lucky to have it. Thanks to David & Joyce and all their hard work! And all the people willing to take the time to share their knowledge, glad we all share a passion.
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Posted by: Stefany Post Reply
05/19/2015, 16:07:05
you can look and see turquoise colour lamp work glass beads with splashes of the mottled grey, but i suddenly saw them the other way round, with similar effect to what "KFM" describes in such wonderful technical detail-- being white glass mottled with grey as the body of the beads, covered in places with some random swirls of the turquoise. Then they clearly showed as glass, maybe dipped in acid etch to avoid being shiny...
made in a limited edition batch of graduated sizes-
the date if not the exact country of origin could be determined from the necklace length.
if its approximately twice the length of a choker then its likely to be 1930s, if short enough to hang in an open shirt collar then maybe 1950s? this is why i always hope to be shown or told the length...
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Posted by: Mel H Post Reply
05/20/2015, 21:44:20
I'm so sorry, today was a crazy day, I meant to get back to you sooner...the necklace is 20" long, so 1950s? The color is definitely a Mid Century favorite, but its pretty ubiquitous across eras, too. I'm willing to bet they're Czech, almost all of the glass beads in this box were Czech, but I'd love to hear your thoughts. I think you're right about the acid bath, they are very soft and satiny. I'm thrilled to have put some of the pieces together! -Melissa
Modified by Mel H at Wed, May 20, 2015, 22:07:39
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Posted by: Floorkasp Post Reply
05/24/2015, 03:19:21
Looking at them again with your description, I do think you are right. Had not thought about the metal leaf, even though I do lampwork myself. Could indeed be fun to try.
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