Post Message Search Overview RegisterLoginAdmin
Interesting old Indonesian?
Post Reply Edit View All Forum
Posted by: lopacki Post Reply
03/20/2015, 09:19:41

A good friend and fellow bead collector that has lived in Bali for over thirty years just sent me this image of some beads he just purchased. As he is well aware of all the new (old) beads being made in Indonesia and sells this type bead for the proper low price his comment on these beads is that they are 10th century.

Any and all comments will be very interesting for all of us.

All my best ..................... Danny

jb.jpg (161.7 KB)  


Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
The problem is that it is almost impossible to be certain -even in person.
Re: Interesting old Indonesian? -- lopacki Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
03/20/2015, 17:18:20

Based upon pattern and patina, I would be very suspicious, especially of the ones in the front row. In my humble opinion, I feel that these are definitely new. And I should be doubtful about all of the others. But the back row is slightly convincing.

Today's Eastern Javanese bead makers are excellent copyists of the ancient Jatim bead.

Just Fred



Modified by Frederick II at Fri, Mar 20, 2015, 17:20:30

Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: The problem is that it is almost impossible to be certain -even in person.
Re: The problem is that it is almost impossible to be certain -even in person. -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: karavanserai Post Reply
03/20/2015, 18:10:42

I agree.I would not dare to make a judgment pure on this picture. You really have to see and feel them in real, and check through a magnifying glass. I found that the finish of the holes is also an important clue, but this might be copied as well by now.

martine

Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
All of them are fakes. I'm sure.
Re: Interesting old Indonesian? -- lopacki Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: shinji Post Reply
03/20/2015, 22:57:04



Modified by shinji at Fri, Mar 20, 2015, 23:03:42

Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Interesting old Indonesian?
Re: Interesting old Indonesian? -- lopacki Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lopacki Post Reply
03/21/2015, 08:11:32

Thank you all for your feedback, my friend will most likely have them at the next Tucson show then we that are there can see them in person.

After some talks with Fred over the past months I do not think I would buy any of this type bead because the new beads are so good that it has made the truly old beads all questionable.

Thanks again
All my best ....... Danny



Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Seeing fakes
Re: Interesting old Indonesian? -- lopacki Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Will Post Reply
03/21/2015, 11:26:48

Hi Danny,

I don't think it's very difficult to tell from the photo that these particular beads are fakes. Shinji is absolutely right, of course. If one looks at the beads, it's quite clear that they are technically different from authentic Jatims. For instance, the pelangis in the front row are not made from mosaic canes layered and combed over a monochrome core and then pinched off to create the individual bead.

For this reason, these fakes appear to belong to an older generation of copies from around fifteen years ago, before the beadmakers in Jember understood how the originals were made. They imitate the appearance, but not the structure. The colours of the glass and the formations of the eyes are wrong too. Somebody who has lived in Bali for thirty years and handles lots of beads could have figured this out; he ought to know too that no Jatims were being made as late as the 10th century.

The copies have gotten much better and more convincing in the past ten years, and so have the techniques for ageing them. But I don't think one needs to avoid Jatims because of that; one just has to look more carefully. I've certainly made mistakes, but we learn from our mistakes - or if we don't we should get out of the collecting game. And I don't think that Jatims are that much more dangerous than, say, Roman face beads or Phoenicians or for that matter ancient stone beads. It's the same problem with any antique really. And as for Zi - now there's a real minefield! The excitement lies in picking one's way through it.

All the best,

Will



Copyright 2019
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users


Forum     Back