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Ceramic "fake" chevron question.
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Posted by: Dog Bone Crazy Post Reply
10/19/2014, 06:19:26

Hello All;

Is there any updated information about these ceramic fake chevrons? How were they manufactured? How were they decorated? Where were they manufactured? When were they manufactured. Where in Africa were they used and traded? Were they used outside of Africa?

Sincerely
Thomas Mercer

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Modified by Dog Bone Crazy at Sun, Oct 19, 2014, 19:15:46

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Re: Ceramic "fake" chevron question.
Re: Ceramic "fake" chevron question. -- Dog Bone Crazy Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: floorkasp Post Reply
10/19/2014, 07:06:44

As far is I know, they are Prosser beads, made by the French Bapterosses company in Briare, probably between 1900 and 1940. If you look at the ends, you will probably notice that one end is quite rough compared to the other. Not rough like unglazed ceramic, but rough because the Prosser bead was fired on the bottom in a kiln. The composition of the base material for Prosser varied between period and bead types. This ones seems to be closer to ceramic than some other Prosser beads.

I have talked to the Picards about these a few times. The exact shape of these beads, in white and in blue, shows up on Bapterosses sample cards, but without the chevron decoration.
The Bapterosses have made a range of attempts of making their own chevron style beads, some more successful than others. Some are made like a puzzle of different pieces together, some by painting.

The specific style of this fake chevron bead does not show up in the collection of the Briare museum, or on any of the sample cards. This makes it almost impossible to know if they have been decorated by the Bapterosses factory, as they did with some other fake chevrons, or if they were decorated elsewhere. The coating does not really stand up to wear. It's color and style does show similarity to the other Prosser fakes by the Bapterosses. Almost like the red was made with a simple marker....

Below is a picture of my versions of these beads, worn a lot more. Second picture shows all Bapterosses beads, found by a local woman in their dumpsite. There is a painted chevron, and a white plain bead with the 'cuts' along the side to color it as a chevron too. That would suggest that this decoration was done after firing, which may explain why the color tends to wear off. Also, you can see the white and blue tubular beads that seem to be linked to the fake chevrons you showed. Most, if not all, of the beads in this picture appear to be prototypes that have not made it to the market in large quantities.

Perhaps if others would show their fake chevrons of this type too, with details of the holes and their size, we could solve this puzzle with a bit more proof.

IMG_3549.jpg (33.5 KB)  1_DSC00059.jpg (46.5 KB)  


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This is very helpful. Thank You Floor.
Re: Re: Ceramic "fake" chevron question. -- floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Dog Bone Crazy Post Reply
10/19/2014, 11:11:03



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I think I just saw a ring made with one of these scrap pieces.
Re: Re: Ceramic "fake" chevron question. -- floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Luann Udell Post Reply
10/19/2014, 18:56:57

The solid teal "cut" bead that sort of looks like a Prosser bead was made into a ring, on display in a dealer's booth in an antique store. I was fascinated by it. I may go back to look at it again!

Luann Udell artist & writer Ancient stories retold in modern artifacts LuannUdell.com

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Three pseudo chevrons with sizes
Re: Re: Ceramic "fake" chevron question. -- floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: hans0621 Post Reply
10/20/2014, 08:22:12

Hi Thomas and Floor
here are my three pieces.
I can't recall it clear but I read somewhere that Baptarosses had his beads decorated by a company (maybe Redlhammer?) in Gablonz.
The measurements of these three beads are:
Lenght x Diam - Perforation
29,8 x 23,9 - 8 mm
29,3 x 22,8 - 7,6 mm
60,1 x 21,7 - 7,1 mm
In the first picture both are the same bead
The perforation in the three beads have a small deviation (0,5 mm) on both sides

Floor, do you have a picture of the sample card of these beads without decoration?

PA140020+.jpg (146.7 KB)  PA140024_copy.jpg (115.3 KB)  


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From the museum
Re: Three pseudo chevrons with sizes -- hans0621 Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: floorkasp Post Reply
10/20/2014, 09:37:20

Not the best pictures......so no exact size comparison that is possible.
Some of these pictures were made by the Picards on their visit to the museum. I have recently been in touch with the museum and am still hoping to be able to get good pictures of their collection.

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Re: From the museum
Re: From the museum -- floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: floorkasp Post Reply
10/20/2014, 09:37:50

briare31.jpg (79.1 KB)  DSCN3016.jpg (47.8 KB)  


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Redlhammer
Re: Three pseudo chevrons with sizes -- hans0621 Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: floorkasp Post Reply
10/20/2014, 09:46:37

Interesting idea that the Redlhammer company or another Czech company might have decorated these beads.
For my Briare book I have dug into some of the links between the different Prosser producing companies. There was an international Syndicate of producers of porcelain beads and buttons. Note: the term porcelain was used on and off for beads made with the Prosser technique.
They did work together, but from what I could tell, it was mostly with regards to setting prices and working together for export purposes.
The Czechs have been known to buy plain buttons from the Bapterosses factory and decorate them. It would suprise me though if that was also the case with these chevron type beads.

The decoration seems crude to me, and not part of the way Redlhammer produced items in bulk. I have not seen any similar beads turn up in Jablonec, or on any Redlhammer cards. I think that experimental, low volume decoration done by Bapterosses for a specific order is most likely, or otherwise decoration being done in Africa.

However, this is all speculation.....no proof either way.



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"fake" chevron examples
Re: Re: Ceramic "fake" chevron question. -- floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadtraveler Post Reply
10/20/2014, 10:39:15

Just to throw in another example for study... here is a pair of "fake" chevrons presented as found on the strand along with a very nice mix of Venetian beads, coming from the North of Ivory Coast. These show a lot of wear and only retain some of the chevron decoration around the ends. They measure about 21 mm long.

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Different type
Re: "fake" chevron examples -- beadtraveler Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: floorkasp Post Reply
10/20/2014, 12:30:27

These are interesting too. I do think these are also Bapterosses, but clearly a different shape and style. Interesting how yours, like mine, seems to have some type of marks around the middle that would indicate problems with the molding or firing of the beads.....

IMG_3550.jpg (44.9 KB)  


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I have been wondering about this one.
Re: Re: Ceramic "fake" chevron question. -- floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: karavanserai Post Reply
10/22/2014, 04:27:41

I think the seller took the 'Venetian' label away after a discussion , and now just states it as an old chevron. It somehow reminds me of Chinese.
I have been wondering where this one would have been produced. Anyone? Thanks.

img_7192_1024x768_[1].jpg (127.4 KB)  img_7195_1024x768_[1].jpg (108.1 KB)  
martine

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Re: I have been wondering about this one.
Re: I have been wondering about this one. -- karavanserai Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: floorkasp Post Reply
10/22/2014, 05:15:00

To me, this one looks like an actual chevron bead. By that I mean that is a glass bead that is made by make a glass cane with a star shaped mold, that has been drawn, cut and polished. The other ones were just plain glass/Prosser beads, where a chevron pattern had been drawn onto.

I would think it is indeed made in China, considering the size of the hole. It has been artificially aged, I think.



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Re: Re: I have been wondering about this one.
Re: Re: I have been wondering about this one. -- floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: karavanserai Post Reply
10/22/2014, 05:22:36

yes, I thought so too about the molded starshaped layers, but wondered about this outer layer. So you don't think there was ever a painted outer layer, just a faked patina. That is a possibility of course I had not thought of.
Thanks Floor.

martine

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