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Indoneasian bead info please.
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Posted by: lopacki Post Reply
08/15/2014, 13:45:19

Last year at Tucson a good friend of mine walked by and threw a small leather bag to me and said here’s a gift for you and Suzi, Richard has had it on consignment for twenty years. Well this is the bead and I am 99% sure it is Indonesian.

I feel this is not a newer bead for these reasons. The quality of the work is far above anything seen in most current production including construction, quality of the canes, quality of overall glass work.

I would like the hear thoughts from all out there that know far more about this type bead than I. I already established it was older than twenty years I would like to hear your ideas in regards to its age.

Bead size
28.8mm diameter 22.6mm long

All my best .............. Danny

P.S. Do you see a bird image in the cane?

3_indo.jpg (78.0 KB)  


Modified by lopacki at Fri, Aug 15, 2014, 13:45:47

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Hmmmm
Re: Indoneasian bead info please. -- lopacki Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: floorkasp Post Reply
08/16/2014, 04:48:13

Danny,
If you would not have said it had been around for 20 years, I would have been quick to say it was a new reproduction. The pattern and the slightly greasy finish are consistent with the beads made in Indonesia in the last ten years or so. The quality is amazing, and has greatly improved in recent years. There are for example viking style beads with checkered patterns that are dazzling. I have seen new reproductions with this exact bird pattern.

I have added an image from the Jewelry fair in Amsterdam last year, with some great examples, and one of my replica beads.

However, if they are indeed 20 years old without any doubt, then......I don't know.

IMG_2868.jpg (88.5 KB)  CIMG2149.jpg (30.7 KB)  


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Re: Hmmmm
Re: Hmmmm -- floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lopacki Post Reply
08/16/2014, 10:25:52

Floor,
I was thinking last night about these two gentlemen in I think Amsterdam that have an outrageous bead shop. They were in one of the” World on a string” videos, one of their specialties is super nice modern reproductions of the old Indonesian beads. I don’t know how long they have been doing this but the beads they showed were very nice, maybe this bead was one that they made or had made this long ago.

My main reason for posting this was because my friend made the statement about it being consigned 20 years. I will send him and email and see if he can’t give me a bit more information. Will keep everyone posted on what I hear.

All my best ....... Danny



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Re: Re: Hmmmm
Re: Re: Hmmmm -- lopacki Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: floorkasp Post Reply
08/16/2014, 11:41:01

The beads I showed you are indeed from these two 'Beadbrothers'. Similar high quality Indonesian replicas and 'beads inspired by ancient beads" were also available in Tucson with several buyers.

Yours could be an 'early generation replica', but twenty years seems early.



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Jatim bird beads
Re: Indoneasian bead info please. -- lopacki Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Will Post Reply
08/16/2014, 13:33:42

Hi Danny,

I agree with Flor. It doesn't look like an ancient Jatim bead to me; more like some of the repros that were being made ten or twelve years ago. My main reason for saying this is that the perforation and the area around it are unlike any genuine Jatim I've come across, and unlike most of the more recent fakes. Also, the construction of the cane and the colour seem wrong. If you get a chance to look at pages 100 and 101 in Jamey Allen's Magical Ancient Beads, or page 73 in Manik Manik di Indonesia by Adhyatman and Arifin (still a very useful book), you'll see the difference, I'm sure.

I'll attach too a photo of the most famous Jatim bead of all: Korean National Treasure #634, which was found in a royal grave in Korea that can be dated to the late 5th-early 6th centuries. With its face and bird canes, it shows how developed bead making was in Java in that early period. There's a fine, elegant essay about this bead by James Lankton in the proceedings of the 2007 International Bead Conference in Istanbul.

Cheers,

Will

1_NT634.jpg (51.3 KB)  


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Re: Jatim bird beads
Re: Jatim bird beads -- Will Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lopacki Post Reply
08/16/2014, 14:42:45

Will,
I said that I did not think it was a newer bead (less than twenty years old), I knew for a fact that it was far from ancient. I was in hopes someone could give me an approximate age.

I think Floor may have answered my question regarding the bead brothers, if it was some of their production I am in hopes that one or both of them are part of this forum.

Its a nice bead and a nice gift just trying to know a bit more about it.

All my best .......... Danny



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Re: Re: Jatim bird beads
Re: Re: Jatim bird beads -- lopacki Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: mcbead Post Reply
08/21/2014, 04:01:58

Well....i am the Beadbrother (only 1 left) :-) it isnt one of mine but i do fully agree with Floors opinion......i was in Java few months ago as i am every year and every sign in the finish and colours tells me its new.....recent 10 years tops....i send a ic to 2 of my contacts ....i ll let you know there opinion asap

Max (McBead) Beadbrothers



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Re: Re: Re: Jatim bird beads
Re: Re: Re: Jatim bird beads -- mcbead Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lopacki Post Reply
08/21/2014, 08:38:04

Max,
Thank you for this information it will be nice to hear what your contacts have to say.

Thank you again ..... All my best ... Danny



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Re: Re: Re: Re: Jatim bird beads
Re: Re: Re: Re: Jatim bird beads -- lopacki Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: mcbead Post Reply
08/23/2014, 06:55:59

word from Java: new bead made from old glass.......a thing we see quit often at the moment...



Modified by mcbead at Sat, Aug 23, 2014, 06:56:23

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Re: Indoneasian bead info please.
Re: Indoneasian bead info please. -- lopacki Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Bolthouse Post Reply
10/11/2014, 16:32:16

these are reproductions... made in china and sold through out Asia for the last 25 years or so.. these beads carry no smooth wear marks.. no patina, no visual age appeal.. i have travel asia for the last 20 years.. i constantly look for old beads.. so many repros as yours



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