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Friday Show and Tell: Snazzy Little Wound & Trailed Beads
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Posted by: Joyce Post Reply
11/09/2007, 18:32:47

I couldn't resist this little strand on the 5.00 table at the flea market last Sunday. When I have seen such beads loose, I have guessed them to perhaps be Czech, or maybe even Japanese. But here, they are strung with little filigree caps and red thread in the way that many strands from Italy are done. They're matte, and feel very nice. They're only about 6mm x 10mm. Any ideas re. age/origin?

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Saturday Show and Tell: Fat Indo-Pacific Necklace
Re: Friday Show and Tell: Snazzy Little Wound & Trailed Beads -- Joyce Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Joyce Post Reply
11/10/2007, 07:59:22

Ex-Lankton collection. Substantial and comfy!

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Re: Saturday Show and Tell: some of my pure trash
Re: Saturday Show and Tell: Fat Indo-Pacific Necklace -- Joyce Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: vikuk Post Reply
11/10/2007, 09:19:35

This stuff - which is modern - really is supposed to be made out of trash - sweepings from the amber jewelry workshop. The beads themselves have lumps of "stuff" inside them - the type of stuff one could imagine being found on your average asian floor (talk about inclusions :)
But there still seems to be enough amberite type material in these beads that allow 'em to pass the amber tests. They smell right after being tortured with glowing metals - and gawd blimey - they float in brine.
I reckon the beads come from Burma - they are made up into these big 108bead malas - sold as Tibetan - and I aint ever seen a tibetan wearing this stuff - never. But they're fun trash - I like 'em

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[empty of content]
Re: Re: Saturday Show and Tell: some of my pure trash -- vikuk Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
11/11/2007, 12:59:10



Modified by Beadman at Sun, Nov 11, 2007, 13:00:02

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'Asian Pressed Amber' ?
Re: Re: Saturday Show and Tell: some of my pure trash -- vikuk Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
11/11/2007, 12:59:29

Dear Vikuk,

Reading your message, it sounds as though you may think that pressed amber (ambroid) is made by beadmakers in Asia, who would take discarded material and reconstruct it.

In fact, although this is a suggestion that has been made many times, there is no evidence that pressed amber has ever been made in Asia, and is only made at three locations: Germany (where it was invented in 1881), Poland, and Russia.

An assumption has been made that anyone can take some amberóbecause it is resinómelt it and reform pieces into larger blocks (or whatever). Actually, because of the physical change that amber resins have undergone, real amber, when heated, does not melt and become a liquid. It becomes, at best, a hot gummy mass. furthermore, if it is not hot enough it hardens, and if it is a few degrees too hot, it catches fire. In order to press amber, an apparatus is required that gauges temperature very precisely, and can then apply great pressure on the material to press it. Consequently only industries that have these machines make pressed amber.

When I was in China in 1997 I bought prayer beads similar to those you show (and from a retail store here in California, recently). It is difficult to know the source of this amber, whether it's Chinese, from Borneo (the source for "root amber"), Burma, or what. The amber seems dark colored and to have darker inclusions. It may look "pressed" but isn't--as demonstrated by uncut nodules. But it is very unlikely the amber has been pressed unless it is imported from Europe as such. Of course, I suppose that sooner of later the Chinese will HAVE this equipment. But we cannot assume that any amber is pressed in Asia until we know that is a fact.

Jamey



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Re: 'Asian Pressed Amber' ?
Re: 'Asian Pressed Amber' ? -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: vikuk Post Reply
11/11/2007, 17:17:04

Thanks again for putting me right.
But wherever this stuff comes from - it comes from a cheap and plentifull source. My evidence for this - how common it is. and the way its marketed. Even illegal vendors who sell off the sidewalk can sometimes be seen flogging this exact same type stuff - together with their usual tacky cheap rubbish.
With this kind of evidence - I'm at least ruling out the posh German import possibility :)



Modified by vikuk at Sun, Nov 11, 2007, 17:52:08

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Saturday show
Re: Friday Show and Tell: Snazzy Little Wound & Trailed Beads -- Joyce Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: hans Post Reply
11/10/2007, 09:25:53

Here is a necklace with old Java beads >800-1200BC?.
Some are repolished
Biggest bead is 28,8x24,5mm, hole 4,3>3,9mm
Does anyone have more information about this kind of beads and is there a link with the Han-dynastie in China?
I have read "Manik Manik" but like to have more info from other sources
thanks, hans

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Early Indonesian Glass
Re: Saturday show -- hans Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
11/11/2007, 13:12:34

Hello Hans,

It is not really clear how it came to pass that glass beads were made in Java quite a few centuries ago. However, two factors that must be considered are these: 1) Tamil glass-beadmakers introduced the practice of making Indo-Pacific beads (small drawn monochromatic beads that became locally known as mutisalah beads when red or orange); and 2) Middle Eastern beads that were destined for China passed through Indonesia on their way there (once sea routes were established). The stylistic and technical connections between Middle Eastern and Javanese mosaic-glass are undeniable.

The importance of Chinese glass-beadmaking is easy to overestimate, because of the quantities they made in modern times (from the Ming Dynasty on). But glass was not an important product in China, was only introduced in the Warring States Period, and began to become degraded by the Han Dynasty. From the Han to the Ming, there is not a lot of glasswork, and practically no conventional beads. (Most glass was worked via lapidary techniques, like a stone.)

I don't see any connection between Indonesian glass beads and Chinese beads. The glass is different, the way the beads were made is different, and the Chinese basically were not in the glass game at the times Javanese beads were made. A more likely connection was between Indian and Middle Eastern beadmakers.

Jamey



Modified by Beadman at Sun, Nov 11, 2007, 13:13:13

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Re: Early Indonesian Glass
Re: Early Indonesian Glass -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: hans Post Reply
11/11/2007, 13:43:24

thank you Jamey for your opinion
most of the translucent beads in this necklace have signs of beeing folded and some have traces of the same stone red color as in Indo Pacific beads.
So Tamilglass is more plausible. Have you any idea about the age of the beads?

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Re: Early Indonesian Glass
Re: Re: Early Indonesian Glass -- hans Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
11/11/2007, 16:17:11

Hello Hans,

In fact I believe these beads are simple folded beads. (It is a Middle Eastern and not a Chinese approach to glass beadmaking. However, some Ban Chiang beads from Thailand also seem to be simple folded beads--or what I prefer to call "rolled-pad" beads. I am not necessarily saying there is any connection. More that this is something that fledgling glass industries did in ancient times, before conventional wound and drawn beads were devised or incorporated.)

There is no tangible way to date these beads, since they have not (to my knowledge) been recovered archaeologically from a well-dated site. However, in terms of the look of these beads, they have much in common with faceted crystal beads that are most likely Sassanian.

By the 6th or 7th centuries, typical multicolored jatim were being made in Indonesia. (This is why they are no longer identified as being "Majapahit" beads. Once it was realized that jatim were earlier, they provisionally became "srivajaya beads." Now it appears that even this may not be early enough.)

So, I would be inclined to make a comparison between Sassanian faceted rock crystal beads as the prototypes of faceted glass beads from Indonesia. The Sassanian beads are found in the Middle East AND in Java/Indonesia. It's hard to know for how long they might have been manufactured. Recent copies of these bead, made from recycled glass, and made via lapidary techniques can be mistaken for the old beads. Another thing to be aware of.

Jamey



Modified by Beadman at Sun, Nov 11, 2007, 16:21:31

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I bought some of these from Bead Game in the 70's
Re: Friday Show and Tell: Snazzy Little Wound & Trailed Beads -- Joyce Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Russ Nobbs Post Reply
11/11/2007, 18:30:44

I remember these beads from my bead store back in the 70's. I think I bought them from Bead Game in LA. I think they were Japanese but they may have been Venetian. I'll look in the old catalog and see if it says.



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Bead Game
Re: I bought some of these from Bead Game in the 70's -- Russ Nobbs Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Joyce Post Reply
11/11/2007, 21:49:24

Russ, thanks, I have been in touch with Jo-Anna, former owner of Bead Game, in the past and have bought cool 70s millefiori from her. I have just sent an email with image to an eddress I think is hers, but am not sure. I do hope to hear from her.



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Re: I bought some of these from Bead Game in the 70's
Re: I bought some of these from Bead Game in the 70's -- Russ Nobbs Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Joyce Post Reply
11/12/2007, 06:54:00

Hi Russ,
I heard back from Joanna of Bead Game, confirming the beads are from Ercole Moretti, and she thinks they may still be in production. Here's her web link, there's some cool stuff there:



Related link: http://beadaze.stores.yahoo.net/

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Early '70s Venetian
Re: Friday Show and Tell: Snazzy Little Wound & Trailed Beads -- Joyce Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
11/12/2007, 01:52:43

Hi Joyce,

I remember when these were new. They were brought directly from Venice, and I used them in several necklaces at that time. The colors are surprising, in being almost day-glow in tone.

Oddly, by 1972, I recall, stores were selling these as "ceramic" beads. I recall telling a shop owner they were Venetian glass, and she practically called me an idiot. As though there were any hot-red clay beads around....

Jamey



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Thanks, Jamey!
Re: Early '70s Venetian -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Joyce Post Reply
11/12/2007, 06:54:24



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Re: Friday Show and Tell: Snazzy Little Wound & Trailed Beads
Re: Friday Show and Tell: Snazzy Little Wound & Trailed Beads -- Joyce Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: globalbeads Post Reply
09/15/2010, 21:15:51

They are Venetian

Kathleen, Global Beads, Inc

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