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Beads in their original dateable object - 1760 AD
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Posted by: Carole Morris Post Reply
08/19/2013, 09:27:45

Hi everyone
Have been wanting to post these for a while, and now have the images scaled down to post.

These lovely combed/feathered beads (sometimes called squiggled beads, but I like to reserve that name for English squiggled beads made for lace bobbin spangles), are still in situ on an urn pedestal which was made about 1760 in a workshop established in Brunswick in what was the the Electorate of Brunswick-Lüneburg, then Hanover, now in modern Germany.

Some good seed bead colours as well.

The urn and pedestal was made by an ex pat dutchman - Johann Michael van Selow between 1755 -1767 (the twelve years in which his workshop was running). It is in the Lady Lever Gallery in England (in Port Sunlight, Wirral, near Liverpool) and at last I got a chance to visit there a few weeks ago.

I'll post a couple of other images as well, and see what people think.

Cheers
Carole

Lady_Lever_urn_42.jpg (99.6 KB)  


Modified by Carole Morris at Mon, Aug 19, 2013, 09:32:35

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Re: Beads in their original dateable object - 1760 AD
Re: Beads in their original dateable object - 1760 AD -- Carole Morris Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carole Morris Post Reply
08/19/2013, 09:29:58

More combed/feathered ovals, a couple of excellent black & white striped a speo beads, some more good seed beads, and a few mother-of-pearl and gemstone pieces.

Lady_Lever_urn_22.jpg (109.5 KB)  


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Re: Beads in their original dateable object - 1760 AD
Re: Beads in their original dateable object - 1760 AD -- Carole Morris Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carole Morris Post Reply
08/19/2013, 09:31:22

Lots more seed beads and some gemstone inlays.

Lady_Lever_urn_32.jpg (89.6 KB)  


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Re: Re: Beads in their original dateable object - 1760 AD
Re: Re: Beads in their original dateable object - 1760 AD -- Carole Morris Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: waneeho Post Reply
08/19/2013, 10:57:13

Carole It is really great to see these beads on a datable object. The 1760 date is fascinating - I have been thinking of those types of beads as late 1800's at the oldest. Thanks very much for sharing the photos.
Paul



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Re: Re: Re: Beads in their original dateable object - 1760 AD
Re: Re: Re: Beads in their original dateable object - 1760 AD -- waneeho Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carole Morris Post Reply
08/19/2013, 11:54:11

Hi Paul

I do enjoy finding beads in their original context and pushing dates back, because there are so many beads out there which MUST have come from the 1600's, 1700's etc which are other than chevrons and seed beads, but it's a task finding the evidence and pinning it down.

These combed/feathered beads are not the classic blue or pink on white type - and on the urn there are different colour variations as well, many with extra lines encircling the bead at each end, but these are earlier versions of the classics we know, and I believe some of those classics are also early, but in their "African trade bead' context they are not particularly dateable.

We have dateable sample cards, of course, but I've not come across any earlier than about 1815.

Cheers
Carole



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15th to 19th century missing links
Re: Beads in their original dateable object - 1760 AD -- Carole Morris Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
08/19/2013, 11:03:21

Carole,
My thanks as well - I recently have been interested in what the Venetians were producing before the "hey-days" of the late 1800's to early 1900's (other than chevrons and other drawn beads), and this is new important data.

We all probably have lamp work fancy beads in our collections from the era before the mid to late 1800's, but it's been very difficult to identify them.



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Re: 15th to 19th century missing links
Re: 15th to 19th century missing links -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carole Morris Post Reply
08/19/2013, 11:57:35

Hi Rosanna

Me too. I am trying to do this all the time, as 18th and 19th century European glass beads are one of my specialisms, especially when they were used in English lace bobbin spangles, and often these can be dated to within 20-30 years, some from the end of the 18th throughout the 19th century.

The van Selow pieces are so useful, and I have another of his creations in my archive to process at some point and add to the mix.

Cheers
Carole



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Thanks for this interesting piece of historical evidence.
Re: Re: 15th to 19th century missing links -- Carole Morris Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: karavanserai Post Reply
08/20/2013, 17:53:18

is there any chance you would show us some of the 'lace bobbin'beads with the corresp. dates you managed to determin?

martine

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Bead dated between 1810-1830 AD
Re: Thanks for this interesting piece of historical evidence. -- karavanserai Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carole Morris Post Reply
08/21/2013, 08:10:48

Hi Martine

Yes, of course. Here's one for you. A white glass Venetian bead decorated with yellow flowers and green leaves in three rows around the bead. It is on a lace spangle which I believe is still attached to the same bobbin it originally started out life with between about 1810-1830.

The bobbin is a fruitwood bobbin inlaid with boxwood and very finely turned. It was made by a man we know also made inscribed bone bobbins with dates, hence we know he made bobbins between these dates.

This exact bead is found on the Benedetto Barbaria bead sample card dated to at least as early as 1815 (it is in the Technisches Museum, Vienna), so the bead, the bobbin and the sample card are all singing from the same songsheet!

Cheers
Carole

Barbaria_bead.jpg (13.1 KB)  Barbaria_1815_2_low_2.jpg (135.9 KB)  


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Re: Bead dated between 1810-1830 AD
Re: Bead dated between 1810-1830 AD -- Carole Morris Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: karavanserai Post Reply
08/21/2013, 15:21:00

Thank you Carole. What a great feel it is when all pieces fall into place. Very interesting. It is only very recently that I got to know through BCN about these lace bobbin beads. I never saw that before and wonder whether it was only a tradition in the UK. Belgium had/has quite a strong lace tradition but I can't remember ever seeing beads on the bobbins.

martine

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English Lace Bobbin spangles
Re: Re: Bead dated between 1810-1830 AD -- karavanserai Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carole Morris Post Reply
08/22/2013, 06:13:54

Hi Martine

You won't find spangles on any type of bobbin except the East Midlands English type. There are even English bobbins which don't use them - neither South Buckinghamshire types, nor Downtons, Malmesburys or Honitons have them.

The spangle was almost certainly invented from c.1760's onwards in England as an anti-swivelling device to prevent previously unspangled types of bobbins overtwisting (or untwisting) and spoiling thread which was now machine-spun instead of hand-spun. The entire question of when spangles were invented is bound up in the introduction of machine-spun threads in the English Industrial Revolution. They also act as an added weight (on slim lightweight English bobbins) to keep the threads straight and under tension. Although historically most of the beads used in them were made in the usual European glass beadmaking centres of Venice, Bohemia, France, etc., many others were actually made in England itself.

Carole



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Thank you! Another mystery solved ;-)
Re: English Lace Bobbin spangles -- Carole Morris Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: karavanserai Post Reply
08/22/2013, 06:21:47

martine

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Thank you! Another mystery solved ;-)
Re: English Lace Bobbin spangles -- Carole Morris Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: karavanserai Post Reply
08/22/2013, 06:22:00

martine

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test
Re: English Lace Bobbin spangles -- Carole Morris Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Joyce Post Reply
09/06/2013, 22:03:17



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Detail of a tabletop...
Re: Beads in their original dateable object - 1760 AD -- Carole Morris Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadyeyed Post Reply
08/19/2013, 11:20:44

...now I know what he did in the workshop. Must've been a fun place to work!

mosaic2-1.jpg (81.4 KB)  


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Re: Detail of a tabletop...
Re: Detail of a tabletop... -- Beadyeyed Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carole Morris Post Reply
08/19/2013, 11:59:03

Tabletops were apparently the most commonly made van Selow pieces. The urn (and another very special piece I have images of) are the exceptions to the usual.

Cheers
Carole



Modified by Carole Morris at Mon, Aug 19, 2013, 12:06:08

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Thank you, Carole. Fantastic information.
Re: Beads in their original dateable object - 1760 AD -- Carole Morris Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carl Dreibelbis Post Reply
08/19/2013, 17:06:07



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Stunning!
Re: Beads in their original dateable object - 1760 AD -- Carole Morris Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carole Post Reply
08/22/2013, 11:43:41

You are an encyclopedia of curiosities Carole! This photo evoked memories of a sofa I saw at the Tokapi Museum in Istanbul years ago. It was adorned with 12,000 pearls; I would prefer to own your specimen tho!

I immediately gravitated to the large blue beads around the base. I bought several years ago when they were commonly referred to as Dutch Dogon beads. Peter Francis later told they are not Dutch. Where do you think these beads were manufactured?

Which brings me to the question of what do Dutch beads look like? Dubin's book made scant mention of Dutch beadmaking. Can anyone in this wonderful forum offer any information on the latest on Dutch beads? Thank you! Carole T.

dogon_beads.JPG (132.0 KB)  


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