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Gonna get my kiffas on and strut my stuff at the Rocky Mountain Bead Bazaar!
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Posted by: Carole Post Reply
04/26/2009, 12:49:28

It's a beautiful spring day here in Denver! I am heading up to the bead bazaar. Recently had my kiffas thoughtfully restrung by Bryson, Jacob March's assistant at Nomad Design in Boulder. I heard that Anna Holland saw it and exclaimed "She's got kiffa beads that I don't have!" Anna may end up with this necklace, we'll see. I posted the world's smallest kiffa awhile back and now that I found out it is newer reproduction, I am concerned about other beads on this necklace- especially the green striped one similar to the one pictured in the middle. My small kiffa came off this necklace. I got it after the Santa Fe Bead Symposium years ago. I decided to take money out of savings to buy a kiffa necklace but there weren't any kiffas to be had. Some bead dealers were getting some in and said they would see me in Denver. When I got back to Denver, they were waiting outside my house with 6 kiffa necklaces in hand! I'll let you know if I see anything interesting!

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Hi Carole, BEAUTIFUL Kiffas. Perhaps The Kiffa King can comment.
Re: Gonna get my kiffas on and strut my stuff at the Rocky Mountain Bead Bazaar! -- Carole Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carl Dreibelbis Post Reply
04/26/2009, 15:06:28

They look authentic to me and very nice.



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Or the Baron of Bodoms
Re: Hi Carole, BEAUTIFUL Kiffas. Perhaps The Kiffa King can comment. -- Carl Dreibelbis Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carl Dreibelbis Post Reply
04/26/2009, 15:06:57



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Sorry.........I mean the Archduke of Akosos
Re: Or the Baron of Bodoms -- Carl Dreibelbis Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carl Dreibelbis Post Reply
04/26/2009, 15:09:08



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or is that the Markgraf of Marbles?
Re: Sorry.........I mean the Archduke of Akosos -- Carl Dreibelbis Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carl Dreibelbis Post Reply
04/26/2009, 15:10:32



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Ahemmmm, Harumpffff....
Re: or is that the Markgraf of Marbles? -- Carl Dreibelbis Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: TASART Post Reply
04/26/2009, 16:25:25

Just clearing my throat after that coaxing by Carl....Yes these are all authentic older versions, icluding the green striped bead that is not strung, whose brother bead sits at 3 O'clock to the right, the green striped is more of a tear drop shape with a design that wraps all the way around the bead unlike the usual triangle shapes whos designs are typically limited to the front (of course there are some with design on back) but not a continuous design circling this type of tear drop shape, very nice collection! Thomas



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I am humbly honored with your recognition Tzar Tasart!
Re: Ahemmmm, Harumpffff.... -- TASART Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carole Post Reply
04/26/2009, 17:55:18



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Rocky Mt Bead Bazaar & Bead Renaissance Bead I.D. please
Re: Gonna get my kiffas on and strut my stuff at the Rocky Mountain Bead Bazaar! -- Carole Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carole Post Reply
04/26/2009, 17:00:04

Junior reporter Carole reporting back from the RMBB...there was only one African bead trader there and he was loving it-Haje from Seattle. His prices varied wildly per customer but he intrigued me into buying a strand of small russian blues for $45, old gooseberry like tiny seed beads for $5 each strand and other small purchases. He sold me a long "wedding" beads necklace for $55 but refused to budge for another woman for less than $75. It was fun hanging out there for awhile.

The Bead Renaissance in September is a much larger event; in conjunction with the second largest Gem and Mineral show in the United States. He will be back then after going to Africa. At the Bead Renaissance Fair there are a few more sellers of old beads. I ran into an apparently relatively new African bead dealer and felt compelled the buy my first necklace in many years. I know, I know I am slipping into addiction AGAIN! I paid $90 for the necklace, pictured below and it included the single Kiffa bead I included with my Kiffa necklace. Should one capitalize Kiffa? I think so.

image



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Re: Rocky Mt Bead Bazaar & Bead Renaissance Bead I.D. please
Re: Rocky Mt Bead Bazaar & Bead Renaissance Bead I.D. please -- Carole Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carole Post Reply
04/26/2009, 17:00:34

Ooops!



Modified by Carole at Sun, Apr 26, 2009, 17:01:30

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Fustat?
Re: Re: Rocky Mt Bead Bazaar & Bead Renaissance Bead I.D. please -- Carole Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carole Post Reply
04/26/2009, 17:09:48

Okay this is where a peasant bead collector like me takes a deep breath and asks...is it? Hey i found out enlightening news before in front of the WHOLE BCN network- but that's okay.

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Roman glass?
Re: Rocky Mt Bead Bazaar & Bead Renaissance Bead I.D. please -- Carole Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carole Post Reply
04/26/2009, 17:12:54

I apologize for the bad photography but hope i have a handle on these beads- are they Roman glass- except for the bead at 5 o'clock which I think is suspect.

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Where are they from?
Re: Roman glass? -- Carole Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
04/26/2009, 18:10:26

Hi Carole,

It has been said many times that no one has demonstrated any Roman Period beads coming from West Africa. Repeatedly, when "Roman" beads are beads from the digs in Mali, they date from the Islamic Period, and have been misidentified. (One may score a better sale's price from people if you say the beads are older than they are. And any time you can connect "Roman" to an artifact, the price can be greatly raised.)

Of course, there are MANY Roman Period beads from the Middle East, Central Asia, SE Asia, and even Island SE Asia.

So, where are they from?

Jamey



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Re: Where are they from?
Re: Where are they from? -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carole Post Reply
04/26/2009, 18:48:01

Dear Jamey... as I said, all these beads in this post were purchased on one necklace from an inexperienced African bead trader. My conversation with Haje today indicated that it is getting harder to get beads in Africa. He was interested that I had a full necklace of second generation Nueva Cadiz because he had a client who wanted them and he was worried about how hard it was to find them in Africa. I still can't believe they are early Islamic! What about the black residue in the perforations? What is your thoughts on the other beads, Sir Non-Bead God.



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Not Roman glass
Re: Roman glass? -- Carole Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carole Post Reply
04/27/2009, 14:06:50

I apologize for my ignorance- Jamey quietly and sweetly set me straight. I am finding out the learning curve on beads is fairly steep for those new to the BCN. Thank you all for being patient with me!



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Re: Rocky Mt Bead Bazaar & Bead Renaissance Bead I.D. please
Re: Rocky Mt Bead Bazaar & Bead Renaissance Bead I.D. please -- Carole Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carole Post Reply
04/26/2009, 17:17:42

Now I am entering into territory that I really don't know. These root beer glass beads resemble Roman glass imitation agate beads but are larger than others I have- measuring over 1 cm each.

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better picture
Re: Re: Rocky Mt Bead Bazaar & Bead Renaissance Bead I.D. please -- Carole Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carole Post Reply
04/26/2009, 17:21:08

image



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Not a clue!
Re: Rocky Mt Bead Bazaar & Bead Renaissance Bead I.D. please -- Carole Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carole Post Reply
04/26/2009, 17:40:43

This is the THIRD time I am trying to post this!!! I am not sure about these beads- several of them have black residue in the perforations. Mountain Mama on ebay is selling them- she must have run into the same bead dealer- she claims that they are early Islamic but I am turning to the Bead Gods for their verdict.

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Re: A clue
Re: Not a clue! -- Carole Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
04/26/2009, 18:13:33

Hi Carole,

I'm not a "bead god," but more of an earnest authority trying to help.

These are Islamic Period glass beads, such as many also are, from the corpus of beads dug at and around Mali.

Jamey



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Still not a clue- won't be crushed if they are made in India
Re: Rocky Mt Bead Bazaar & Bead Renaissance Bead I.D. please -- Carole Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carole Post Reply
04/26/2009, 17:50:24

It's a mixed bag. This was an entertainng necklace. It the Kiffa is old then the whole necklace was worth the $90.

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Islamic Period folded beads from Mali.
Re: Still not a clue- won't be crushed if they are made in India -- Carole Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
04/26/2009, 18:14:23



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I don't recognize the Kiffa...
Re: Still not a clue- won't be crushed if they are made in India -- Carole Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: TASART Post Reply
04/26/2009, 19:22:17

The brighter blue bead may appear to be a Kiffa bead but I can't tell from the picture, I would suspect it to be an Islamic period bead as Jamey said... perhaps a different angle would change my view...



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I think she meant an actual Kiffa bead that came with these Islamic Period beads.
Re: I don't recognize the Kiffa... -- TASART Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
04/27/2009, 01:48:52



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Re: I don't recognize the Kiffa...
Re: I don't recognize the Kiffa... -- TASART Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carole Post Reply
04/27/2009, 10:35:08

It is pictured with my kiffa beads- so sorry I confused you. I could just see you busting brain cells trying to turn one of those beads into a kiffa. The aqua-blue one would be the closest to a kiffa but that is a long shot!



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well worth the $90.00 and then some
Re: Still not a clue- won't be crushed if they are made in India -- Carole Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Joyce Post Reply
04/26/2009, 22:34:47

Although in imperfect condition, there appear to be a number of Islamic period beads on this strand, and the one authentic Kiffa. You did just fine!



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Re: Gonna get my kiffas on and strut my stuff at the Rocky Mountain Bead Bazaar!
Re: Gonna get my kiffas on and strut my stuff at the Rocky Mountain Bead Bazaar! -- Carole Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Anna Post Reply
04/27/2009, 07:06:19

Hi Carole!

Indeed, I did say that when I saw your necklace! It's quite wonderful. Bryson's work is impeccable ... and Jake's is beyond perfect! I'd love to make a date with you to get together. Bryson gave me your number and I have it on my list to give you a call ... soon! I decided not to go to RMBB. How was it?

I've posted my own kiffa design ... a choker-length piece that I did a couple of years ago.

DSCN5865.JPG (103.4 KB)  


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Hi Anna, thanks for showing this beautiful necklace design!
Re: Re: Gonna get my kiffas on and strut my stuff at the Rocky Mountain Bead Bazaar! -- Anna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Joyce Post Reply
04/27/2009, 12:06:30



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Chevron question
Re: Gonna get my kiffas on and strut my stuff at the Rocky Mountain Bead Bazaar! -- Carole Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: jake@nomaddesign Post Reply
04/27/2009, 14:29:08

....................................................................................Ahhh, so we bead again Carole.


Howdy all~

I just wanted to follow Carole's lead and show my finds. I actually did not expect to make any personal purchases as this show is mostly retail, but imagine my joy to find these three antiques. Unfortunately, sold with very little provenance (someone's estate). The first, a little Roman millefiori, the second an ancient faceted jasper pendant purchased from Andy at Anahita a decade plus ago. The third is this 22mm x 13mm five layer chevron! Unfortunately chipped on one side. I can definitely see the wear characteristics of true age on this bead, but do not recognize the color. the white is fine, and the brick is true, but the black is kind of a dark semi translucent eggplant. Does any one have any info regarding this bead? Age, value?

Thanks.

Chevron.jpg (71.3 KB)  Chevron_III.jpg (82.1 KB)  


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Re: Chevron question 3rd photo.
Re: Chevron question -- jake@nomaddesign Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: jake@nomaddesign Post Reply
04/27/2009, 14:31:58

Chevron_II.jpg (53.3 KB)  


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Oh yes, good find!
Re: Chevron question -- jake@nomaddesign Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Joyce Post Reply
04/27/2009, 16:43:24

Hi Jake,

I think those 5L chevs are from approx. 1920s and are featured in the Picard vol. 7 chevron book. The prices have gone crazy in recent years. Someone else has a more current estimate than I...... about 8 years ago you could buy a strand for less than 700.00. In the past year or so I heard one bead could be around 150.00. Everyone will have a different opinion....but this one, since it is mitered, and chipped on both ends, I would ask some talented chevron grinder, such as Alan Curtis or Rick Rice, to refinish the ends for me so I could wear and enjoy it more. Observing that it will not have the same value as an original grind, but would look nicer and have more aesthetic value as a jewelry component.



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Jake, whatever you do DON"T call it a "Black" chevron......please
Re: Oh yes, good find! -- Joyce Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carl Dreibelbis Post Reply
04/27/2009, 17:24:17



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Makes sense, can you tell me more? Thank you.
Re: Jake, whatever you do DON"T call it a "Black" chevron......please -- Carl Dreibelbis Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: jake@nomaddesign Post Reply
04/27/2009, 17:32:48



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Hi Jake
Re: Makes sense, can you tell me more? Thank you. -- jake@nomaddesign Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carl Dreibelbis Post Reply
04/27/2009, 17:44:17

According to John Picard, these date to the late 1800s. Although these appear to be black they are not, according to Jamey. Perhaps he can enlighten you on that.

One of my favorite chevrons.....these old 5 layer "black" ones.

Carl



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"Black" Chevron Beads
Re: Hi Jake -- Carl Dreibelbis Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
04/27/2009, 19:05:34

Hi Jake and Carl,

I routinely refer to these as "black chevron beads." Nevertheless, the color of the outer glass is not truly black, because MOST glasses that appear to be "black" are usually a saturated version of a conventional color. [Man, there's a LOT of dialogue about this specific problem/issue here. I really hesitate to bring it up again, lest what I say be misinterpreted yet again....] Among Venetian beads, the most common "black" glass is deep violet. However, since at least the 16th C., Venetians have also made what is called a "madder red," or "wine red," that when saturated passes for black—which is what forms the outer layers of the beads we are discussing.

Rosetta beads with white base layers date from the mid to late 19th C. HOWEVER, we only know this from a few specimens that exist on a few sample cards. These few beads are distinctive. They are small in diameter, and have poorly "whittled" ends. It's not the reasonably precise faceted look of earlier and later (20th C.) beads..., but has the look you'd get if you sharpen a pencil with a knife. Plus, the starry layers also tend to be sloppy.

Moretti introduced the modern chevron beads with white bases, in four-layer and six-layer editions in 1917. All typical late, modern rosetta beads post-date this time (even though they are routinely sold as deriving from an earlier time, and are usually sold as "antique"—which they are not—as I define "antique"). Until some incontrovertible proof comes to light to enlarge our perspective, and push the time of manufacture back—this is what I will maintain.

There are also some (I believe) 20th C. beads that resemble the late 19th C. beads (which should not be surprising at all). These have been presented as the earlier beads, when I believe they are not that.

I have to say I don't know who made the sloppy black five-layer beads we're discussing here, that have a red layer next to a black layer. But I would have to guess that they post-date the introduction of the Moretti beads. And the 1920s seem like a likely time.

As has been pointed out many times here and elsewhere, your millefiori bead has come out of Mali, from Islamic Period digs. It is not a "Roman" bead.

I was just speaking with Andy Hale on the phone about a week ago. I wish he and Kate were still in the beads business—because they always had such great stuff. My collection is richer for it.

Be well. Jamey



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Thanks so much Jamey~ Sounds correct to me.
Re: "Black" Chevron Beads -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: jake@nomaddesign Post Reply
04/27/2009, 19:32:32



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Re: Moretti Date
Re: "Black" Chevron Beads -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
10/30/2019, 12:21:39

October 2019

I wrote about Moretti and "1917." My mistaken memory. The actual date (often repeated by me at the Forum) is 1911.

(1917 was the year that B. H. Carroll composed The Carroll Report, on Venetian glass beads!)

JDA.



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Re: Oh yes, good find!
Re: Oh yes, good find! -- Joyce Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: jake@nomaddesign Post Reply
04/30/2009, 12:21:21

HI Joyce~
Thanks for your, as always congenial response! I think your sweet!



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Other purchases at the Rocky Mountain Bead Bazaar
Re: Gonna get my kiffas on and strut my stuff at the Rocky Mountain Bead Bazaar! -- Carole Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carole Post Reply
04/28/2009, 11:26:28

I'm not into seed beads. Never was. Oh, I bought my share of tiny white hearts with intentions of making a cool necklace but soon found out I lacked the patience and the talent for jewelry making. So why was I drawn to make this purchase? They were cheap. There were other beads I wanted but the prices are prohibitive. I was drawn to the light blue beads first, which were intermingled with opaque blue strands and others. Haje showed me the shank of clear beads which I hadn't noticed and I was immediately enamored. Images of Native American beadwork immediately came to mind. Haje talked about his brisk seed bead sales in the Northwest. I got out my lupe to look at the clear ones and Haje broke into a smile and said "look at them in the light, they look like gooseberries!" They had striations left from the manufacturing process.

Now these beads lay on my table at home. I keep going to them and picking them up, tangling them, then untangling them and wrapping them around my hand. They are hypnotizing me!

image



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Native American Beaded Whimsy
Re: Other purchases at the Rocky Mountain Bead Bazaar -- Carole Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carole Post Reply
04/28/2009, 11:34:57

When I got home from Rocky Mountain Bead Bazaar, I got out a beaded whimsy to compare the seed beads and the feel seems right.

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Modified by Carole at Tue, Apr 28, 2009, 16:24:36

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