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Mutton Fat Jade?? withe designs Katmandu 1985
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Posted by: metateman Post Reply
06/18/2019, 11:46:45

Hello to the group
Here is a different bead, I purchased in Katmandu 1985 Durbar Square.

I bought it as it was different than the others. It has the tiny tiny hole
I am hopeful someone can give me some information about this bead.


sincerely from Walter Anderson

DSC_0316.JPG (162.0 KB)  DSC_0317.JPG (176.2 KB)  


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Zi Imitation
Re: Mutton Fat Jade?? withe designs Katmandu 1985 -- metateman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
06/21/2019, 14:24:34

I think you will find that the material is serpentine. It is much too soft to be agate or jade.

These beads were artificially patterned to resemble Tibetan zi beads. You bead is plump, but others can be longer tapered beads, and other shapes. It is very typical that the decoration has worn away—to some degree or entirely.

Horace Beck (the founder of modern bead research—and my role model), showed one of these beads in his paper ("Etched Carnelian Beads," 1933), that he proposed was probably Chinese. I don't know that this idea has ever been challenged; nor that any other origin has been proposed. These beads were also shown by David Ebbinghouse, in his multi-part article, "Tibetan dZi Beads," for Ornament, 1982).

Jamey



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Re: Zi Imitation
Re: Zi Imitation -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: metateman Post Reply
06/21/2019, 19:31:07

Hello Jamey

Would you please attribute a time frame to when this bead was made??

I would like to join your group on dzi beads. I cannot find your link now??

One of my friends, when lived in Nepal many many years in the 70's and 80's told me he has a ancient bead also of this same material.

How can I test to see if it is serpentine or agate??

Did you get to look at the long white bead I posted the other day. I would like to know what type of material. Can I send these2 beads to find out what the stone is??

I appreciate your input, this is a learning experience for me.
sincerely from
Walter



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Re: Re: Zi Imitation
Re: Re: Zi Imitation -- metateman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
06/22/2019, 16:05:43

The Chinese imitation zi, as I attempted to explain, have not been the subjects of much scrutiny. Consequently we only have the suggestion that they might be Chinese (by Beck—unchallenged), and the circumstantial knowledge that the bead Beck showed was presumably "old" when he published it in 1933.

Serpentine is much softer than agate (which is medium-hard, but not as hard as precious stones). You will use a sharp pointed knife or a sharp Xacto knife. (I use any blades in my Swiss Army knife; or a sharp pointed Xacto.). A steel knife or blade will not scratch quartz (including agate)—which is the most-common mineral beadmaking material in the world. But it easily scratches serpentine. Apply the POINT of the knife or blade, in an inconspicuous place (near the aperture is good), and rotate it—like you are trying to dig a tiny round hole. You can turn it back-&-forth, or in a circular turn on its axis. You will not be able to have any impact on quartz. But serpentine will give-way easily. You could try to actually scratch the surface, but this makes a bigger more-obvious mark. Digging is just as effective and a much smaller mar.

By the way, all the above also holds true for actual jade (nephrite and jadeite) in comparison to other false jades (many being serpentine) that are softer than jades. See previous discussions for good advice about jades and "yu."

I did see your impressive long white bead! Ancient drilling is marvelous—in the sense of actually being a marvel. Contact me privately if you want me to take a closer look. jamey4beads@gmail.com

Jamey



Modified by Beadman at Mon, Jun 24, 2019, 12:03:52

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