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Old Dice bead
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Posted by: alipersia Post Reply
05/30/2019, 07:14:50

Hi everyone.

Long time no Post. Hope Every body be ok. I bought this Dice with some ancient bead,but I couldn't make a date on that. I was wondering if some of you have sample or know the story. The material seems to me shell.
Best wishes

Ali

rsz_1۲۰۱۸۰۵۱۷_۱۷۳۳۰۴.jpg (140.2 KB)  rsz_۲۰۱۸۰۵۱۷_۱۷۳۲۵۴.jpg (142.3 KB)  


Modified by alipersia at Thu, May 30, 2019, 07:17:29

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Re: Old Dice bead
Re: Old Dice bead -- alipersia Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Divedog Post Reply
05/30/2019, 08:52:01

it looks like a Roman Bone Dice. 1st-3rd century A.D.


Related link: http://www.ancientresource.com/lots/roman/roman_dice.html

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Roman or much earlier
Re: Old Dice bead -- alipersia Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: will Post Reply
05/30/2019, 20:43:02

Hi Ali,

It's vey good to see that you're well. Yes, it's very possible that the dice may be a Roman example that has been traded into Iran. But it could also be from the Indus Valley culture where dice probably originated in the late 4th millennium BCE. They seem to have been used for playing a form of backgammon, which probably started there, too.

I'll attach an image of an Indus Valley dice that's in the museum in Lahore; it's dated to 2500 BCE. Like most Indus Valley dice it's made of terracotta, but I've seen several in bone and occasionally in shell, and one that was bronze. The bone, shell and bronze examples have all used the circle-dot motif, which is used for decoration on a lot of Indus Valley objects, as well as on many of their etched carnelian beads.

But closer to home - your home! - dice have also been found in Iran at the amazing early 3rd Millennium BCE city at Shahr-e-Sookhteh on the banks of the Helmand River in Southeast Iran near the Afghan border. I passed through there once a long, long time ago, but don't remember any dice!

One factor that may help in determining where yours comes from originally is the 2-face of the dice. I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere else, but I've noticed on all the Indus Valley dice that I've seen (as well as on later Bactrian and Gandharan examples) that the 2 dots are always vertical (or horizontal), as they are in the illustration from Lahore, whereas on most Roman dice they are at an angle to the frame. Actually, this is still true in many modern dice that you find in South, Central and East Asia (the not-for-export ones anyway), in contrast to those manufactured in Europe or North America.

All the best,

Will

IV_dice_LahoreMuseum_2,500BCE.jpg (32.3 KB)  


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Re: Roman or much earlier
Re: Roman or much earlier -- will Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: alipersia Post Reply
05/30/2019, 22:37:34

Thanks Dive dog and Will.
Yes me too have seen a play board dated to Jeroft civilization and Share _ sukhteh.
It is said here that Persian people learned chess and back gamon from Indian people.
Thanks again
Best Regards

Ali



Modified by alipersia at Thu, May 30, 2019, 22:38:39

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DIE—You landlubbers.
Re: Old Dice bead -- alipersia Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
05/31/2019, 09:24:48

I am on a ship to Riga, Latvia tonight. JDA.

die_and_dice.jpg (66.0 KB)  


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LOL, glad I read the whole thing! Good one, Jamey!
Re: DIE—You landlubbers. -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Luann Udell Post Reply
05/31/2019, 11:16:31

Luann Udell artist & writer Ancient stories retold in modern artifacts LuannUdell.com

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Yes, or no dice!
Re: DIE—You landlubbers. -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: will Post Reply
05/31/2019, 21:16:26

Yes, but no. Here's the Oxford Dictionary:

"Historically, dice is the plural of die, but in modern standard English dice is both the singular and the plural: throw the dice could mean a reference to either one or more than one dice."

So... I'll stick with that. Have a great time in Riga!

W.

IV_dice_(Harappa).jpg (113.3 KB)  


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Choices
Re: Yes, or no dice! -- will Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
06/20/2019, 21:07:24

Hello Will,

It's all about choices. We just make them. Some are more-informed than others.

I had a great time in Latvia and Lithuania. Also Berlin and London. Not to mention my limited time in Stockholm.

I am ferociously editing thousands of photos, that I will be posting at FaceBook.

Cheers, Jamey



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"Amber" Dice
Re: Old Dice bead -- alipersia Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
06/21/2019, 13:56:16

While I was in Latvia and Lithuania (about three weeks ago), I noticed some amber sellers had piles of dice. These ranged in size from game-size to about an inch and 1/4 in diameter. The materials was translucent yellow (of course).

I considered buying some, and pondered having to drill them from corner to opposite corner.

I picked up a large one, and held it up to the light. I quickly realized it was a yellow material, securing many small bits of amber. So, they are an artificial product that "contains amber." Along the lines of Bernit or Bernat. (Amber suspended in Damar resin.) I immediately decided to not buy any. But I took a photo....

Jamey



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