Post Message Search Overview RegisterLoginAdmin
Burmese white hearts?
Post Reply Edit View All Forum
Posted by: lindabd Post Reply
03/28/2019, 08:08:55

Hello!
Are these beads what are known as Burmese white hearts? or could they be contemporary? They are the color of ripe pomegranate seeds and they're very pretty, but they don't show a lot of wear.
They are around 1cm in diameter.
Cheers
LD

IMG_9315_copy.jpg (142.1 KB)  IMG_9311_copy.jpg (55.0 KB)  


Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Burmese White-Heart Beads?
Re: Burmese white hearts? -- lindabd Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
03/28/2019, 10:19:45

"...known as 'Burmese white-hearts'..."?

First Linda, it is always helpful to have some idea of scale in any photo. No one can tell whether these are really big beads, or very small beads seen up-close. Scale can make a difference. I see you report they are 1 cm in diameter, but visual clues are more helpful (at least for me).

Let's get it out of the way. Many Burmese necklaces include red white-heart beads. But (those I have seen) usually have a more-pale tone of red, and may or may not be matted.

The actual name for red (or reddish) white-heart beads is Italian—cornaline d'Aleppo (meaning "carnelian of/from Aleppo"—a reference to Aleppo stones that were banded agates or other minerals, used in healing). The name "Aleppo" is also amended to orange-over-white and yellow-over white drawn beads (as we can see on Venetian sample cards).

The Aleppo family was devised by Venetian beadmakers in the early 1800s (possibly by about 1825). They are visually related to larger wound overlay beads, that sometimes are poorly identified by the same name (though the wound beads have their own traditional regional names). The name "white-heart" was/is primarily used by American Indians, and Indian Hobbyists, and was popular as early as the 1960s if not earlier.

Aleppos are very popular trade beads! They have gone nearly anywhere in the world you can imagine that trade beads have gone.

So, to ask about "Burmese white-hearts" is sort of nonsensical. Unless you are speaking solely in the context of Burmese beads. These are Venetian trade beads.

It is true that the appearance of your beads makes them seem to be very bright dark red, and very shiny. They do appear to be recent. But appearances can be deceiving.

In addition to the gazillions of red white-heart beads made at Venice, it is said that the Czechs also made them. (I am not convinced that's true, until recently, and I don't know how anyone might distinguish between them. After all, apparently, the Bohemians (Czechs) INVENTED the red glass used for cdA beads.) From about 100 years ago (or slightly more recently perhaps) the Chinese beadmakers at Boshan made spheroidal overlay beads, that are usually orange or brownish glass over white or yellow glass. These beads were hot-pinched, so they stand apart from the beads that inspired them.

In the mid-1980s (or early '90s) a poor imitation was produced in India—these being wound beads. They are distinct from Venetian beads. As I demonstrated in 2009, red white-heart beads were also made in Java at around that time. The Javanese beads have a very pretty cherry-red color, and tend to be more spheroidal than Venetian beads.

I hope this helps you. Jamey



Modified by Beadman at Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 16:26:20

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re. Wound and Drawn Overlay beads - 2006
Re: Re: Burmese White-Heart Beads? -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
03/28/2019, 17:17:06

Link here:

http://beadcollector.net/cgi-bin/anyboard.cgi?fvp=/openforum/&cmd=iYz&aK=38235&iZz=38235&gV=0&kQz=&aO=1&iWz=0


Related link: http://beadcollector.net/cgi-bin/anyboard.cgi?fvp=/openforum/&cmd=iYz&aK=38235&iZz=38235&gV=0&kQz=&aO=1&iWz=0

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
From 2009
Re: Re: Burmese White-Heart Beads? -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
03/28/2019, 17:20:55


Related link: http://beadcollector.net/cgi-bin/anyboard.cgi?fvp=/openforum/&cmd=iYz&aK=63090&iZz=63090&gV=0&kQz=&aO=1&iWz=0

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Javanese White-Heart Beads
Re: Re: Burmese White-Heart Beads? -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
03/28/2019, 17:23:45

Here's my photo, also from 2009. JDA.

bcn_ja_java_overlay_bds.jpg (63.6 KB)  


Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Re: Burmese White-Heart Beads?
Re: Re: Burmese White-Heart Beads? -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lindabd Post Reply
03/31/2019, 09:44:23

Thank you so much for this detailed and expansive reply Jamey.
I've attached a photo of the beads using a dime for scale as it might be helpful to others.
I hope this finds you well,
Linda

IMG_9437.jpg (138.8 KB)  


Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Red White-Heart Bead Sizes
Re: Re: Re: Burmese White-Heart Beads? -- lindabd Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
04/01/2019, 14:03:40

Hello Linda.

Thank you for posting the new photo with a scale device (coin).

It is very unlikely these beads are anything except Venetian beads. Probably trade beads (if they are more than 70 years old).

This photo is harvested from a Net article I posted in 2001, based on a Bead Society of Greater Washington Newsletter essay I presented in 1997. I first addressed the issue of the origin of cdA beads at Bead Expo in 1994.

The photo shows the range of sizes, from the largest to the smallest Venetian red white-heart beads I have documented. The normal-small beads are totally congruent with your beads.

Whether one writes "Burmese white-heart beads," or "Burma white-heart beads," the concept is entirely context-driven. The beads are only that if they are in or derived from a Burmese necklace.

Anyone using these names as some sort of generic is kidding himself/herself, and is misinformed. Since I have not run into this issue before now, I remain surprised—if this has become "a thing."

Jamey

aleppo_sizes.jpg (46.4 KB)  


Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
"Burma White Hearts"
Re: Burmese white hearts? -- lindabd Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
03/28/2019, 18:47:02

Hi Linda,
Maybe you are recalling the term "Burma White Hearts" rather than Burmese.

There are a lot of marketing names for trade beads - also referred to as "campfire names" by at least one person. The origin of the names in most cases is not known, and from what I gather, are just used to conveniently identify, buy and sell certain beads. Some names are descriptive of the design, such as "gift box" for beads that have crossed trailed designs that make them look like, well, a gift box. Others like "French ambassador" appear to have zero relationship to either the French or an ambassador, but stories have been created to account for the name anyway.

I have only been around collectible beads for 10 years but I have seen large size white heart beads, mostly with irregular size and shape and 10 mm or more in diameter, referred to as "Burma white hearts". They appear to have been heated after slicing off the cane which makes a lot of them slumped and out of round.

They come in various shades of red, and also orange. These are the ones I'm familiar with and there may be others. As far as I can tell, the distinctive feature of the "Burma white hearts" is their size. They seem to be some of the largest two - layer drawn beads from the hey-days of European glass bead-making.

PS I have no idea why they are called "Burma".

BurmaWhitehearts.jpg (36.0 KB)  


Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
I did mean to write "Burma White Hearts". Thank you for interpreting!
Re: "Burma White Hearts" -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lindabd Post Reply
03/31/2019, 09:47:26



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users


Forum     Back