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Does gold tarnish?
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Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
07/28/2018, 01:17:27



Modified by Frederick II at Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 17:18:27

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Here you go, Fred.
Re: Does gold tarnish? -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Joyce Post Reply
07/28/2018, 08:42:05

"Gold is one of the least reactive chemical elements. Gold alone or pure gold does not combine easily with oxygen so it stays shiny, it does not rust nor tarnish, again, that is pure gold."

https://www.onecklace.com/tips/does-real-gold-tarnish/



Modified by Joyce at Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 08:43:20

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The operative words are "pure gold."
Re: Here you go, Fred. -- Joyce Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
07/28/2018, 12:04:32

Gold is often alloyed, since antiquity. Alloy metals may cause tarnish. or result in patina. Electrum is a primary Egyptian example. Egyptians also made red gold by alloying it with copper. JDA.



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Ancient gold
Re: Here you go, Fred. -- Joyce Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: will Post Reply
07/30/2018, 11:18:01

Thanks, Fred, it's an interesting question and, as with all interesting questions, the answer moves from simple to complicated.

The simple answer is that gold does not tarnish; it doesn't undergo the chemical process that occurs when the surfaces of metals such as silver or copper or alloys like bronze interact with the surrounding air. It can develop a patina, as with your examples I would guess, but that kind of patina doesn't represent a chemical change to the metal itself.

But the answer gets more complicated when we talk about gold that is not 100% pure, as most gold in antiquity was not. The first "gold" coins which seem to have come from Lydia, a kingdom in Western Anatolia in the 8th century BCE, were an alloy of about 50-55% gold with 40-45% silver and a little copper. This appears to have been an artificially controlled alloy rather than a naturally occurring electrum. Probably the main reason for the impurity was to make the gold content less costly, and secondarily to make the coinage less soft and more long lasting.

Still at that point gold doesn't seem to tarnish. How much further on the impurity spectrum do we have to go before tarnishing occurs? I can't find an informed answer to that, but based on my own observation I would say we have to go well below 10 karats to somewhere around 30% gold content.

Let me give a few examples:

1. is a typical Roman gold bracelet, probably 2nd century CE, which is very rare because it is one of the very few examples of Roman gold found near the great port city of Oc Eo which was located on what is now the border between Vietnam and Cambodia. It had been cleaned by a friend before I bought it nearly 30 years ago, and it will never tarnish. It's more than 90% pure.

2. is a gilt image of Avalokiteshvara made in China during the Wei dynasty in the 5th century. The mercury gilding process has left such a pure coating of gold that after all these years there is no tarnishing but there is a patina, and where the gilding has worn away the bronze beneath has tarnished and corroded.

Roman_gold:OcEo.jpg (90.3 KB)  Wei:avalokiteshvara.jpg (23.4 KB)  


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I have decided antique metal should not be cleaned. "Patina" adds beauty.
Re: Ancient gold -- will Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
07/30/2018, 21:10:42

The way I learned it is:

In antique pieces with less than 24K, over a long period of time, some pure gold rises to the surface -creating what appears to be a thin film.

After the raised areas have been handled or polished, the uncleaned, recessed areas appear to be a richer shade of orange. I am not a metallurgist; I do not really understand this process. Is it a chemical change?



Modified by Frederick II at Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 23:57:10

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the gilt statue was 7-8th century of Tang Dynasty
Re: Ancient gold -- will Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: redmountain Post Reply
08/03/2018, 04:31:17

Hello will
Long time no see



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dating games
Re: the gilt statue was 7-8th century of Tang Dynasty -- redmountain Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: will Post Reply
08/03/2018, 14:38:00

Hi RM,

It's good to see you here. With respect, I think you may be wrong about the dating of this simple little devotional figure. I've seen several similar dated examples from the Wei dynasties in the fifth and sixth centuries. For instance, one with an inscription on the back that dates it to the year 474 was sold at Christie's in September 2013. The gilding on it has mostly worn away but it's virtually identical to the one that I showed here.

Generally speaking, the later Tang dynasty examples are more elaborate, with flowing robes and mandorlas (the fiery haloes) that are more detailed; they are quite often enthroned, and if standing, frequently have a wider plinth, sometimes in a lotus shape. The movement from simplicity to elaboration is typical, I think, of the wider cultural shifts in those centuries, particularly in the practices of Buddhism.

But having said that, I wouldn't rule out your suggestion entirely. These figures were cast in a variety of different foundries according to the tastes of customers, and in some places older fashions lingered on into later periods.

Cheers,

Will



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Gold examples:
Re: Does gold tarnish? -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
07/28/2018, 17:29:39

19th century Japanese ojime. 3/4" or 18mm height. Meiji Era. High carat gold. Notice thin film (tarnish) in the recessed areas. The tarnish on the raised areas has been removed through handling.

Gold.jpg (42.3 KB)  


Modified by Frederick II at Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 23:50:17

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Re: Gold examples:
Re: Gold examples: -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
07/29/2018, 09:25:38

CAT_frnt:bk.jpg (40.2 KB)  


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Re: Re: Gold examples:
Re: Re: Gold examples: -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
07/29/2018, 10:21:05

1_Example.jpg (50.2 KB)  


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Re: Re: Re: Gold examples:
Re: Re: Re: Gold examples: -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
07/29/2018, 10:42:28

exII.jpg (155.9 KB)  


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Re: Re: Re: Re: Gold examples:
Re: Re: Re: Re: Gold examples: -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
07/29/2018, 17:50:41

For_BCN.jpg (84.0 KB)  


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Ojime currently on offer at Eldred's in East Dennis Massachusetts.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Gold examples: -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
07/30/2018, 19:55:14



Modified by Frederick II at Mon, Jul 30, 2018, 20:57:18

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I feel the ojime at Eldred's are second best but have low estimates. We will see....
Re: Ojime currently on offer at Eldred's in East Dennis Massachusetts. -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
07/30/2018, 20:56:19



Modified by Frederick II at Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 00:42:44

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Thirteen gold ojime with a high estimate of six thousand would be a low price to pay.
Re: I feel the ojime at Eldred's are second best but have low estimates. We will see.... -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
07/31/2018, 00:55:29

ojime_auction.jpg (33.6 KB)  


Modified by Frederick II at Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 08:29:28

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The Bling Police:
Re: Does gold tarnish? -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
07/29/2018, 21:27:53

Each time I walk in and out of the store this guard smiles and says "hello." This is why I had the courage to introduce myself, shake hands, and get close to ask for permission to make his portrait. I explained that I collect jewelry and wanted his photo. I am not intending to make fun of him. But I think it is a fun picture.

1_guard.jpg (207.9 KB)  


Modified by Frederick II at Mon, Jul 30, 2018, 17:08:05

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Lookin' good!
Re: The Bling Police: -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
07/29/2018, 21:41:46

And thanks for the gold ojime "review", Fred! Those are pretty spectacular and I daresay belong in a museum (someday...).



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Re: The Bling Police: useful picture!
Re: The Bling Police: -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: stefany Post Reply
07/30/2018, 12:28:14



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Ancient gold beads
Re: Does gold tarnish? -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: will Post Reply
07/30/2018, 11:44:11

And now some ancient gold beads:

1. is a group of beads from an early Dvaravati (pronounced Tawarawati) site in Central Thailand. They date from the 4th-6th century. Some are solid gold, others are gold over a resin core. The gold content is high in all of them, from 75% to 90%, and again there is no tarnishing, though there's a very pretty orange patina in places that I ought to look at microscopically and haven't!

2. is a group of beads that seem to date from somewhat earlier (C1-3 perhaps) which were found in Central Thailand also. They seem to be absolutely unique, and I really have no basis to say whether they were made where they were found or somewhere else entirely. For the moment, my best guess is that they might have been made in Central-Northern India and imported, along with carnelian and agate, into Thailand, but that is only a guess. They were found together, but the gold content in the three drum-shaped beads is higher (though still quite low at around 40%) than in the "gold" (25-30%), struts of the nine mainly silver seed-shaped beads. The drum beads show only occasional tarnished patches, while the tarnishing is more generalized on the seed-shaped beads - I clean it off lightly from time to time so that one can see the contrast between the silver and the "gold".

I think in all of this there's an interesting discussion about the social function of gold and the different kinds of value attached to it.

Cheers,

will

Dvarawati_gold.jpg (37.0 KB)  Lopburi-95a.jpg (35.0 KB)  


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Duplicate. Please delete.
Re: Ancient gold beads -- will Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
07/30/2018, 16:54:01



Modified by Frederick II at Mon, Jul 30, 2018, 21:29:24

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"Do we really study diversity in dress?" -a topic for the 2019 CSA conference.
Re: Duplicate. Please delete. -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
07/30/2018, 16:56:45

"Gender, age, sexuality, race, ability, religion, class, national origin and other intersectional aspects of identity are constructed, negotiated, and performed via sartorial choices. The fashion industry has particularly benefitted from colonialism and imperialism, the labor of immigrants, women, African Americans, Latinx, and appropriation from indigenous peoples and other marginalized groups. This roundtable seeks to shed light on the ways in which we are and are not fully exploring and addressing diversity and inclusion in our field. Our aim is to prompt rich and open dialogue about how our organization can become more diverse and inclusive in practice, membership, scholarship, and conference attendance. We seek nominations of individuals from across all aspects of our discipline: researchers, designers, curators, educators, etc. to discuss ways in which they have incorporated diversity and inclusion into their dress studies practice and to perhaps challenge or provide insight into how all of us can more often do so.
Nominations for the 2019 Scholars’ Roundtable are due by October 15, 2018. More information can be found here or by contacting Dr. Michael Mamp at Michael.Mamp@cmich.edu."

see: http://costumesocietyamerica.com/resources/grants-awards-and-honors/csa-scholars-roundtable-honor/



Modified by Frederick II at Mon, Jul 30, 2018, 17:14:47

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Re: Ancient gold beads
Re: Ancient gold beads -- will Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
07/30/2018, 22:17:02

These were found in a shipwreck in the Phillipine islands. I bought them from Marc Pettibone, who sold in Jatuchak.

PhilipnGOLD.jpg (150.0 KB)  


Modified by Frederick II at Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 08:49:16

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the green monkey
Re: Re: Ancient gold beads -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: redmountain Post Reply
07/31/2018, 09:07:15

is
CUTE



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Re: the green monkey
Re: the green monkey -- redmountain Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
07/31/2018, 19:21:37

3/4" or 18mm height

Cute_monkey.jpg (46.1 KB)  


Modified by Frederick II at Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 19:22:29

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Dictionary definition of "tarnish."
Re: Does gold tarnish? -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
07/31/2018, 08:59:10

tarnish |ˈtärniSH|
verb
lose or cause to lose luster, esp. as a result of exposure to air or moisture: [ no obj. ] : silver tarnishes too easily | [ with obj. ] : lemon juice would tarnish the gilded metal.
• make or become less valuable or respected: [ with obj. ] : his regime had not been tarnished by human rights abuses.
noun
dullness of color; loss of brightness.
• a film or stain formed on an exposed surface of a mineral or metal.
• damage or harm done to something.
DERIVATIVES
tarnishable adjective
ORIGIN late Middle English (as a verb): from French terniss-, lengthened stem of ternir, from terne ‘dark, dull.’



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Technical term for tarnish is oxidize
Re: Dictionary definition of "tarnish." -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: jrj Post Reply
07/31/2018, 09:59:53



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Re: Does gold tarnish?
Re: Does gold tarnish? -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lapzz Post Reply
08/04/2018, 00:36:24

Ancint silk road treasure, i'm buying ancient mixed horads including silver, gold and other metal artifacts, showing you Gold bead, probably gold button or earring and gold bar, not cleaned, looks to be leeched, and corroded, if buried thousands of years open/loose inside oxided grave, corrosion or gold discoloring does occur and sometimes in damaged artifacts.

artifacts_02.JPG (251.8 KB)  


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