Very good reproduction beads. Thank you Russ. In both images, the yellow does not quite look as crisp...bright...or quite the same as the originals. Would you say that is the case?

Dear Russ,
Thanks a lot for visiting our shop.I will make every effort to produce more good items.
Sunny

Very attractive beads!

Best regards,
Chris

Hi Russ,

Thanks for keeping us informed. You know, it's important that we know this stuff.

Cheers, Jamey

P.S. I like these beads—particularly the spherical millefiori. I did not see anything like these at Tucson, though I fully expected to.

Here are a few millefiori donuts that I found in a Tel Aviv bead shop last year.

Hi Paula,

I'm not sure of the import of your reply.

These pi ornaments (and many other shapes) have been widely available for the past five years. They are derived from bars of glass that are composed from millefiori canes, then divided, and finally lapidary-worked and drilled. This is such a departure from Venetian work, or that of any conventional industry, these products are very recognizable (as new and Chinese).

The interesting thing about the new Chinese millefiori beads Russ has shown is that they copy CONVENTIONAL lampworking techniques—and because of this they more strongly resemble the beads they imitate. THIS is what I was referring to when I mentioned I expected to see these beads at Tucson this year—because it was only late last year that ANY lampworked millefiori beads from China appeared in the marketplace. And my assumption was that by 2008 there would be lots of them. But apparently, that was a premature expectation.

Nevertheless, I would be very surprised if we did not see many lampworked beads that (reasonably well) imitate European trade beads and export beads—and soon.

Jamey

Here are some flower mosaics made by a different glass factory.
The dog bone lovers will enjoy the quickly made dog bone shapes from blocks of flower cane. The long "olive" or oval shape show the various colors of the transparent glass flower cane patterns.

Jamey and I have talked about the turquoise dyed magnesite and how close it looks to real turquoise nuggets. Here's a range of colors beyond just the typical turquoise blues.

This is Magnesite - Magnesium Carbonate which some vendors insist on calling "chalk turquoise." The black crevices are probably enhanced with something akin to shoe polish.

The store front shot shows a variety of man made "block" material. All kinds of imitation stone made entirely from plastic and color dyes. If you look closely you can see malachite, rainbow calsilica, turquoise, and coral colored blocks. The mirrors behind the shelving make it hard to get a good shot here.

Here are the color cards from this particular imitation stone supplier. They only have these plastic blocks of imitation stone and a selection of brightly dyed "white jade" called "candy jade."

I Russ,

As always, you provide us with really significant information.

What is the apparent or relative hardness of this material? I mean, is it hard enough that it makes a clinking sound when banged or banged together, and does it therefore seem "stone-like"?

Is it possible that this stuff is what the "magnesite" and/or "reconstructed magnesite" beads might be made from? Or, would you say (or guess) that the magnesite beads are from a different industry?

I am still distracted by ideas that a lot of this material has been reconstructed. That could just be a mistaken interpretation for what are actually just plastic materials—such as you show here.

THANKS! Jamey

I bought some necklaces in Morocco last year, they look like some of the samples shown.
I shall post a pic.

The Imitation "block" material is soft plastic. Tapping it against your upper teeth it feels plastic, not glass or stone hard. Thin beads of it do not clink like hard stone. In fact, it's not often used as really thin sections except as inlay because it would snap fairly easily.

The use of the word reconstructed is often suspect. Recon is used to imply that real material is used in the process. As in the first uses of "block turquoise" the sellers said it was ground up turquoise bound together with plastic. But no real stone was harmed in the making of most of it. I do have a sample block of "block lapis" that has tiny flecks of pyrite in it. The blue plastic undercuts the much harder pyrite.

There IS what I prefer to call "Compressed Nugget." This is what Colbaugh processing makes from chunks of Kingman area real turquoise. When they mix it with red dye and plastic they get the popular "purple turquoise" sold by Dakota Stone. A cross section of this shows hard edges rather than the soft swirls of plastic and dyes mixed together.

Magnesite is so cheap I'm not sure it is used in "reconstructed" or "compressed nugget" form. I have seen carved beads in magnesite that were stabilized with clear plastic after being dyed. I'm not sure if the clear plastic was to make them look like real turq or just to protect the detailed carving.

The magnesite and dyed magnesite seems to be a different group of makers than the imitation stone makers.

Some of the sample chips and blocks in the above pictures show layers of different colors, like the "Fordite" and "Rainbow Calsilica." Some of the "malachite" block is made this way, too. "Rainbow Calsilica", by the way, is another product of Colbaugh's processing.

The necklaces Sarah shows look to be the dyed magnesite in 2 of the more common colors. There are huge amounts of this available here in China.

Thanks Russ! The so-called Rainbow Calsilica is still being promoted sometimes as a rare stone...the story I heard is that it was originally lapidary-worked layers and layers of car paint taken out of a paint booth in chunks. I wonder how that sort of process is being mass-produced...it is attractive, as is the "purple turquoise" - Si and Ann Frasier are surely keeping busy documenting all this stuff...

Hi Joyce,

I think you have confused two separate but possibly related stories. "Fordite" (and possibly other names) is derived from car factories, coming from the overspray of painting having piled up and formed a stratified material.

Rainbow calsilica, supposedly, was "harvested" in México at the bank of a river, where the material had accumulated. To my knowledge, there is no authoritative explanation of what this stuff is, exactly. I think it is paint (like Fordite), but not necessarily from a car factory. It might be paint from any industry, not excluding car-making. My question has always been, "what factories exist up-river from this stuff?"

I would be very curious to know, from the site you present, where they are getting this stuff. Are they making it themselves?

By the way, I had some discussion with Si and Ann about rainbow calsilica, shortly after they produced their article for Lapidary Journal. I had some information they did not have access to when they composed their piece.

Jamey

Jamey is right about Fordite being an actual collected material. (Quite scarce at this time.)It was from Ford auto painting operations. The build up and drip was collected and cut as a stone. David Horste in Portland occasionally shows pendants made from it in his e-bay store. He's the originator of the cut bowling ball material called "Bowelerite" which he describes as being "found in wooded alleys."

Rainbow Calsilica, on the other hand is probably not collected anywhere despite the tales that go with it. Read the link at the Colbaugh site Joyce posted then the Professional Jewelry article link below.

My guess is that rainbow calsilica is "constructed," that is, made up of pulverized calcite or other carbonate dyed and made in layers of color like the colored sand sold in bottles at state fairs. The resultant stack of colors is then impregnated with resin or stabilized.

If I get back to the store that has all the imitation stones I'll try to get a picture of their layered material that looks similar to Colbaugh's Rainbow Calsilica.

Colbaugh's Mojave green turquoise and their purple turquoise is made from real stone that has been combined into blocks with dye and resin. It is truly a compressed block of nuggets, chips and chunks bound together with plastic resin. Nothing seems to be pulverized in the mix. The harder stone absorbs less dye making patches that remain light to dark blue while the resin and softer stone become red or purple. (Or green, in the case of the Mojave apple green material.) Colbaugh's plant and the mine near Kingman are located in Mojave, county, AZ, hence the name. Their turquoise mine may not be "THE" Kingman mine but is a mine near Kingman, AZ.

Edited to add the link to Rainbow Calsilica at Colbaugh's site: http://www.colbaugh.net/ourproducts/rainbowcalsilica.html

Hi Russ,

Your reply is both enlightening and frustrating!

I am informed to know that Colbaugh is receiving calsilica from the Méxican source, as opposed to making it (which would mean the "stone" is now copied elsewhere—which is a question I asked myself after going to his site).

As background, let me state (as I have in the past) that I met the chap who was the first "discoverer" and distributor of this material, at Bead Expo several years ago. He told me, and a few other people present, how he came upon this stuff, that he had it plasicized to make it harder and workable, and had it analyzed to find out what's in it.

Unfortunately, asking a lab to do an analysis can be an unsatisfying proposition. They just tell you what minerals and materials are involved. They do not really determine whether something is entirely natural or artificial. It would be expected that plastics would be proposed—because he has this stuff plasticized. And it would be expected that minerals were involved and could be quantified, because the PAINT from which it's derived is most likely colored with mineral oxides.

I still think everyone involved in trying to figure out what this stuff is has missed the boat. They all sound like they are in the dark, and that it's a mystery, and that they have no context or "big picture."

Hi Russ,

Thanks for your reply.

The word "reconstructed," as you say, should be reserved for a material made from the ground particles of whatever the parent material would have been—i.e., ground up turquoise, or coral, or whatever—that has been put back together with glue (usually or typically epoxy, at least since the 1970s).

The word has a specific meaning and inference. Nevertheless, in my experience, it is seldom used, in favor of the much-misunderstood and misused "reconstituted." This is entirely different, and has little value in a mineralogical context. Reconstituting involves putting back something that was previously removed. Take the water out of potatoes, dry and flake them, and you can produce a product that will result in "instant mashed potatoes" by returning the water, and stirring. These potatoes are reconstituted. This is not done with minerals (as far as I know). But people LOVE this word, and use it frequently. Sometimes amber is said to be "reconstituted" (incorrectly).

Prior to the modern use of epoxy, some other glue was used to bind dust, to form reconstructed materials. In China, this was apparently done using wood, bone, and ivory dust. Possibly stone dust—but I'm not positive. The resulting materials are usually called "composition." However, many people don't realize this was done, and the stuff is misidentified as "wood" or "bone" or "ivory." I have some antique beads that were sold as "fish bones from a Nile River fish." But they are carved Chinese beads....

I don't think the issue of cheapness should have much to do with reconstructing magnesite. The idea is not to make an expensive material go farther. I suppose the idea is to make a material that will accept the further treatments they have in store. What is your reasoning?

Take care. Jamey

You are correct, Jamey, about the word reconstituted being used in this context. "Recon" or reconstituted is probably more common than reconstructed. But, as you say, it is even less correct. My prevoious post probably should have used the word "reconstituted" as that is the common use.

Much of what I see called reconstituted amber appears to be small chunks of amber suspended in an amber colored resin. It's fairly common from Russian sources. Sometime there are only "sun spangle" sort of flakes floating in the amber colored resin. I suspect that may be entirely man made.

The reason I don't think much magnesite is used in a reconstructed or compressed nugget form is that it takes a dye quite nicely and is relatively hard. There is not much need to make blocks of magnesite material. (although , at the bottom of the picture of blocks of stone you can see some pink stuff that is very similar to the pink dyed magnesite. At a glance it didn't have any "grain" do I assumed it to be entirely man made.)

I could be way off base about magnesite not being ground up, reformed, dyed and stabilized. It could easily be the material for some of the so called carved beads in this material. They would be molded instead of carved. (Or "CAVED" as it is often spelled in China.)

Here's a shot of some magnesite beads showing the enhanced matrix that we think is produced with heat/cold and brown dye.

This brown/black matrix is often crisper looking than the black matrix lines worked into the "block" plastic material. You have to look very closely to see the difference between spider web matrix in real turquoise, the enhanced matrix in magnesite and the markings swirled into the platic "block" material.

One of the best sites on the web to see high quality real turquoise is Skystone trading in Sante Fe. They show the "good stuff."

Did you mention, Russ, if the crazing on these beads is a surface treatment or if it appears inside the bead, too?

I was browsing through an older polymer clay techniques book, and found a recipe for faux turquoise I hadn't seen before. After conditioning the clay, it's broken down into smaller chunks and "crumbles". Each of these small pieces are coated in acrylic paint, THEN pressed gently back into a bead or slab. The excess paint on the outside is wiped off, leaving residue in the cracks and crannies.

With this method, the "matrix" shows all the way through the bead (if you were to slice it open) rather than just on the outside of the "turquoise" bead (when the paint is applied after baking.)

I'm wondering if the crazing on these magnesite beads might be produced in a similar matter? (The ones that show irregular matrix, as opposed to the regularly-patterned matrix that looks more like a heat treatment or crackling effect....?)

It is possible supplies of bone objects made from Tibetan monks may see a surge in production soon?

This is no joke......

Haven't seen even one "Han" bead???

Or bought one piece of turquoise, coral or Pemma roka or whatever the 'proper' name and spelling is now?

Talking to a Tibetan dealer at Boudha as I asked about a nice looking piece of what looked like 'old' turquoise with wear in the hole from cordage he told me if I went in fifty shops I would not see one old piece of what we used to call "Tibetan" turquoise.

I don't know what the authorities have renamed it now but I believe him and am glad I stashed up some kilo's of 'da kind' in the 80's & 90's. I can't get what antique things cost here in Nepal back in the US but my friends here are now buying stuff from me in the US and bringing it back here (Kathmandu). Times change and come full circle.

I know you will never believe it but people here actually respect me!

Something I never got from you ;-)

Oh btw: Be well..........

The crazing is a surface treatment and does not usually penetrate very far into the stone. When it does penetrate very far it tends to distress the stone, making it more likely to break.
It's similar process (we think) to the surface treatment that makes the s called "crab fire agate" with the scaly carnelian/milky white patches.

Hi Russ,

I still think what you say is only partially true. There are two different treatments that are being applied to magnesite fake turquoise. Your photo demonstrates both. All six strands of beads have been distressed, to have cracks or crazing—the first three and the lowest more than the others. Crazing is most likely caused by heating and chilling, and provides a certain look. It is useful for imitating the look of spider-web turquoise, and in this sense is or can be a "matrix" effect. But, essentially, crackling is intended to make an object seem old.

In contrast, your strands four and five (particularly five) have a different treatment (as well), that imitates matrix (but not crackling). This is a more random effect, that I can only imagine is manually induced—because it really looks like turquoise matrix, and not like crackle. (In other words, it is specific to the appearance of turquoise, and would be less effective in treating other supposed stones, though MANY fakes of other materials have been distressed to have crazing.)

This matrix effect is superficial, and does not penetrate into the beads. Broken magnesite beads are entirely clear inside, though the green or blue-green color percolated through.

I'm in a rush to get out of here. Back tomorrow.

Jamey

This is an interesting green core chevron from the Baoshan factory.
It's a 5 layer chevron starting with solid lime green, white, faintly rose transparent, white and blue.
This particular one is about 28x36mm.

Here's another pair for the dog bone folks.

The double is one that never got separated. I don't think it should be called "a speo" since I don't think they were made using that process. The neck is deep cobalt blue. If I couldn't see transmited light through the neck I would have called this black, red, black, white and red. I think that the 2 black layers are very dark cobalt. About 22x30 each bead.

The short strand of similar beads are lapidary worked. The black in these might be dark cobalt, also. The red is the same as the larger ones. The pattern is white, black, white, red, white, black. Each bead is about 16x19 with a 13 to 14 neck.

I like this longer than usual shape of the 13x23 olive chevron. I think I'll add this shape in some of these colors to my regular stock. What we have currently in stock is mostly the flower pattern style rather than the Venetian style from the Boshan factory.

I really like the one with lime green core and trans. rose layer.

Interesting related note...just after Tucson wrapped up, an informant mentioned that in the last days someone came to Rodeway and African Village and bought ALL the Chinese chevrons they could find. This made our African friends very happy.

Yes I agree, first of all thank you for the updates on the Chinese chevron market, where else can one find all this info? That's just one of the things that makes this site great!!! I have to agree with Joyce, the chevron with the rose transparent layer is very interesting, it really lets you "see inside" the bead and witness the layer construction up close and personal, I think this bead will make a fine study bead to own. Thanks Russ, Thomas